lambalicious ,

So, you want people to miss out on cat pictures because your feelings were hurt?

Mastengwe ,

There are much better places to find cat pictures.

daniskarma , (edited )

Lemmy.ml is a massive instance. I don't really know where are you posting there, probably in political communities and thus this reaction. But I follow lots of communities that are hosted on Lemmy.ml and they are just normal communities about their topics, normally technology. I certainly do not want to lose those communities of having to move my accounts around just because you had some problems with some particular people. Block them yourself and move on.

I don't get why there's always people in small places that are always doing their best to make them even smaller. Lots of goods things are lost this way. We must be clever in trying to preserve and make this good things thrive. And, believe me I've been in lots and lots and lots of small community driven projects, this kind of attitude is no good for them. You cannot take every small issue you have with some part of the project and say: "we do not work together anymore".

If there's an issue let's be constructive about it. But defederation of such a big instance with so many people and communities that just does not care about this drama... I don't see how that helps lemmy as a whole.

I suppose there's a lot of political ideology behind what's being ask for, and what's being said. So I do not expect convince OP of anything, as those hard as steel political beliefs are inmutable. But I hope sanity and a wish for making Lemmy a big project of the kind of social networks we want in the future will prevail. Even if that means sharing space with people you don't politically agree 100% about everything, because that's how a community works, different people working together.

diplodocus , (edited )
@diplodocus@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

I've seen inter-Lemmy drama posts in this comm before, and the mods deleted them (or locked them—I don’t recall).

It's hard for me to believe the mods haven't seen this post. They've probably gotten multiple reports.

It seems they're making an exception this time.

ArmokGoB OP ,

The fact I got an instance ban means the admins were involved and were endorsing the tankies. The problem exists at the highest level of Lemmy.ml, not just in a handful of communities.

A_Random_Idiot ,
@A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world avatar

I've been saying this for like 6 months.

.ml is just a filter for Hexbear and lemmygrade users to infiltrate the greater federated instances.

Mastengwe ,

Absolutely is. I’ve no doubt.

jabjoe , (edited )
@jabjoe@feddit.uk avatar

Ah! That makes sense. I was on world news of Lemmy.ml and the comments where full of nutters and/or troll farms. It was like gote/gout (or whatever it was called), another Reddit alternative I've tried that seamed to fill Nazis kicked off Reddit. I unsubscribed and blocked.

Edit: Voat! That was it.

ArmokGoB OP ,

I think you're thinking of Voat.

jabjoe ,
@jabjoe@feddit.uk avatar

Yes! That's the one!

ExtremeSoup ,
@ExtremeSoup@lemmy.world avatar

Seems like they werent such big fans of your post. It has been removed from their instance and your account was banned. Very interesting 🤔

diplodocus ,
@diplodocus@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

You've got things backwards: OP was banned first and then posted this drama in reaction. The post isn’t visible on lemmy.ml because OP is banned.

ExtremeSoup ,
@ExtremeSoup@lemmy.world avatar

I don't know about that. I do see in their modlog that he has been banned multiple times. Allthough i cant find the exact time and date of his newest ban, it corresponds with the creation of this post, aka. 1 day ago from making this comment. But yeah, there is a possebility that he was banned right before or something like that 🤔

ArmokGoB OP ,

Checking the modlog, it looks like a moderator gave me a site ban for 14 days and a ban from the community where I made my comment for 30 days. I find it interesting that it lists my site ban as being from a moderator and not an admin.

Draconic_NEO , (edited )
@Draconic_NEO@lemmy.world avatar

They manipulated the modlog on their version to show all actions as coming from mod and not from admin, likely in attempt to hide how much is by admins as opposed to mods.

Edit: also appears they're manipulating the data itself because actions from lemmy.world's mods and admins are showing up under Nutomic's page so definitely something screwy going on there.

ModId field isn't enabled on these instances, it needs to be specifically enabled for these searches to work properly, thanks @Rooki

diplodocus ,
@diplodocus@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

The lemmy.sdf.org modlog is the same, so this must be a configuration option.

Not everything is a McCarthyist conspiracy smdh.

Draconic_NEO ,
@Draconic_NEO@lemmy.world avatar

If you scrolled just a little bit in that link you sent you would see that it isn't.

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/afe42963-c283-4612-856b-4cde4e084183.png

diplodocus , (edited )
@diplodocus@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

I’ve gone through the first ten pages and still don’t see one 🤷

Draconic_NEO ,
@Draconic_NEO@lemmy.world avatar

try ctrl F "admin" and you'll find them, they're near the bottom of the page.

AchtungDrempels ,

Sorry can't find it.

BTW "Sunaurus page" looks equally suspicious to Nutomic's. Actually the whole lemm.ee modlog is suspicious, right? You think they are also in on it?

AchtungDrempels ,

How did you create this screenshot? This is not what the modlog at lemmy.sdf.org looks like, it looks like this:

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/4b33d089-5e43-4c1b-8be6-55ddec628b2c.png

Draconic_NEO ,
@Draconic_NEO@lemmy.world avatar

It's just one of the preconfigured Lemmy theme options.

AchtungDrempels ,

And would you be so kind and tell with me which one, so i can see for myself what you seem to be seeing there?

AchtungDrempels ,

I think you are confused, but that obviously doesn't keep you from throwing out wild accusations. How is what you linked Nutomic's page? Because it's lemmy.ml? I really feel for Dessalines and Nutomic with all the shit they have to deal with.

diplodocus ,
@diplodocus@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Filtering by “ModId” must also be a config option: lemmy.world’s modlog page has a “Filter by mod” drop-box, but lemmy.ml’s and lemmy.sdf.org’s don’t.

Draconic_NEO ,
@Draconic_NEO@lemmy.world avatar

I see, it would be nice to ask someone who knows for sure.

@Rooki is this the case? Is the ModId field a custom config that needs to be enabled and/or is it a feature added specifically to Lemmy.world (If you don't know would you mind asking someone who might know and getting back to me then?)? If that is the case I'll edit my responses with this new information.

Rooki ,
@Rooki@lemmy.world avatar

I will check the config and let you know. I dont think we have something custom. I think we have a config enabled

AchtungDrempels ,

Have you seen any other lemmy instance besides lemmy.world who has this field? I haven't (I checked feddit.uk, feddit.nl, feddit.de, lemm.ee, lemmy.sdf.org, lemmy.ca, lemmy.blahaj.zone). Are they all up to some shady stuff and lemmy.world is the only instance with an honest modlog?

Also i would like to know your thoughts on "Sunaurus' page", you somehow must have missed when i first asked you about it. Is he also manipulating the modlog data itself? What about "Ada's page"? I am sure i would find the same for admins of the other instances, but i feel like it would be on you to show something that supports your claims.

diplodocus ,
@diplodocus@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

I checked the 12 most popular instances, and only lemmy.world and lemmynsfw.com seem to have ModId enabled, so perhaps the default config setting is to disable it. This is assuming that it’s a config thing at all, but the only other possibility would be that those two sites share forked code.

cc: @Draconic_NEO

Draconic_NEO ,
@Draconic_NEO@lemmy.world avatar

Rooki said that there's an option called "Hide Mod Names", it's likely a default value in the standard Lemmy package, likely the reason why it isn't on more instances. I'll ask the other instance admins I know about it later.

diplodocus ,
@diplodocus@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

I see. It look like it was added a year and a half ago: Add Modlog Filters #2313

AchtungDrempels ,

Yeah. Now i learned more about it than i wanted to. Somehow i still feel dumber after trying to talk to @Draconic_NEO and the troll entourage.

Rooki ,
@Rooki@lemmy.world avatar

They have the option "Hide Mod Names" active. and LW not

Mastengwe ,

I was banned from ml for merely suggesting that responding to someone with memes is childish and immature. So OP being banned from ml isn’t really the crime you might think it is.

Backwards or not- it doesn’t make what they said wrong.

diplodocus ,
@diplodocus@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

I don't know what account of yours that was, so I guess I'll have to take your word for it, because it wasn't the account you're currently using.

Mastengwe ,

No, it wasn’t. And I’ve much better things to do than to make up stories about a backwoods community on a mid-tier social network.

commie ,

the evidence suggests otherwise

diplodocus ,
@diplodocus@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

AFAICT this person is just making up random garbage up all over this thread. They have the means necessary to prove all of their claims if they're true, but so far have provided nothing.

commie ,

and to what end? what is the purpose here? spreading spurious and undisprovable accusations is pointless when people can undermine them just by pointing out the nature of the accusation.

WeLoveCastingSpellz ,

I block them

hark ,
@hark@lemmy.world avatar

Your stance is basically: "I had disagreements with/don't like users from an instance, please block an entire instance for all other users in the instance I'm in". Why are you making your problems everyone else's?

ArmokGoB OP ,

My stance is that Hexbear is a bunch of fascists spreading their ideology and Lemmy.ml is helping them doing it by banning dissenters. I believe that freedom of speech only works with parity, and giving fascists a one-way echo chamber with which to spread fascism, deny genocide, brigade, and otherwise act in bad faith should be entirely unacceptable. People should not be getting posts from Lemmy.ml on their feeds because this "curated" discussion is basically the memetic equivalent of an engineered virus, and it cannot be allowed to spread.

hark ,
@hark@lemmy.world avatar

It's very easy to label people fascists as a generic "bad people" label and claim they're arguing in bad faith based on nothing but your feelings. I could just as easily call you a fascist for trying to decide what everyone else on this instance gets to see and that you're arguing in bad faith wanting vengeance because you threw a tantrum on another instance and got spanked for it.

The most name-calling I see are from people like you who label anyone who disagrees with them a "fascist", "shill", "bot", "tankie", "wumao" or millions of other terms and I see so many posts getting downvoted for not following your desired narrative. We can see this happen in the posts right here.

ArmokGoB OP ,

tankie:

(politics, slang, derogatory, by extension) A supporter of authoritarian policies and actions by the Soviet Union, China, or other nominally socialist governments.

fascism:

Any right-wing, authoritarian, nationalist ideology characterized by centralized, totalitarian governance, strong regimentation of the economy and society, and repression of criticism or opposition.

So yeah, Hexbear isn't full of fascists, it's full of tankies, which are just fascists with a socialist coat of paint. The fact that I'm doing this because I was actioned by a moderator acting as a tankie commissar doesn't change the validity of my reasoning as to why being federated to Lemmy.ml is a problem.

hark ,
@hark@lemmy.world avatar

and you think this entitles you to be commissar dictating what everyone on this instance gets to see or not see? If I call you fascist enough times, does that mean your posts can be blocked for everyone?

Jakeroxs ,

Thank you

rottingleaf ,

It would be better if you could just ignore them.

In general this Lemmy architecture, presented as compromise, where instance admins have some power and defederation is a thing - I don't like it. I understand it's simpler to do, but socially it may just not be something that will work.

IMHO user identities should be cryptographic, so should be community identities, and moderation should be done the same way as certificate revocation, and providing storage and connectivity shouldn't be connected to moderation or identities.

yarr ,

"My opinions are so weak, I can't tolerate dissent."

assassin_aragorn ,

Well, the discussion in this thread has convinced me to agree. It's also readily apparent that ml thinks any criticism against them is because they're leftist. They can't fathom that anyone could think they're an asshole or authoritarian apologist.

fuckingkangaroos ,

They don't think that, they aren't actually leftists and they know it. They're masquerading as leftists and using that as a cover for spreading authoritarian propaganda. It's intentional, they know precisely what they're doing.

If you try to talk to them about it they'll argue in bad faith and try to waste your time.

Socsa ,

Moreover, it seems pretty clear to me that .ml intends to keep their finger on the scale as much as possible. Just saying "oh federation solves all the problems just block them" doesn't really fix the issue when there are a bunch of ways they can potentially run malicious versions of the code base to mess with how federation functions and hold onto their influence. For example, they are already refusing to federate their mod logs in some cases, and they've shown themselves to be completely shameless and hypocritical when it comes to banning any and all dissent. They simply cannot be trusted.

I personally believe that the broader fediverse should seriously consider taking serious steps to cut out .ml before they do something drastic to fuck it all up

diplodocus , (edited )
@diplodocus@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

doesn’t really fix the issue when there are a bunch of ways they can potentially run malicious versions of the code base to mess with how federation functions and hold onto their influence.

This is hysteria of Chinese spy balloon proportions 😂

I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion, and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

Draconic_NEO ,
@Draconic_NEO@lemmy.world avatar

They also manipulated the modlog on their site to not differentiate between removed by mod and removed by admin. So even When something is removed by Dessalines or Nutomic it'll still show as moderator and not admin in the mod log.

AchtungDrempels ,

That your lies get any upvotes is quite sad, i thought people on lemmy were tech savvy. I'm not and even i can see that you're making this stuff up.

Mastengwe ,

Maybe go back to .ml where people don’t need proof to support their arguments and just make wild sweeping accusations, but it’s been proven already that OP is correct.

You’re just wrong.

AchtungDrempels ,

Where is the proof please? As far as i can see, the lemmy.world modlog is the outlier, not the lemmy.ml one.

Mastengwe ,

Plenty of people have provided proof. You’re free to check all the threads here and find them yourself. At this point I’d just be repeating the same sources.

Do your own work. Don’t expect everyone to do it for you.

commie ,

you must support your own position.

AchtungDrempels ,

Sorry but i cannot find anything. If the proof for Draconic's claims is so obvious and plenty, please be so kind and link at least one bit to me. The only thing i could find that seems like some kind of "proof" is the screenshot @Draconic_NEO posted. How they got to take it i have no idea, not saying they drew it in paint, but here is what it looks like on my side (same mod actions):

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/4b33d089-5e43-4c1b-8be6-55ddec628b2c.png

Mastengwe ,

Again, it’s not my job to provide evidence already provided.

spud ,

no evidence has been provided though

Mastengwe ,

You inability to agree with it doesn’t dismiss it. We’re done here. This is a waste of time.

spud ,

it's not about whether I agree,it's about whether it shows what is being claimed

Mastengwe ,

It’s been proven. I’m not arguing this with you. Find it yourself.

spud ,

a claim made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. you are responsible for supporting your own position. I wouldn't ask you to find evidence to support my position. that would be silly.

Mastengwe ,

When there’s already evidence provided by one person, you don’t prod then next person to provide it.

Your bad-faith requests aren’t being met by me, so… maybe go away or something.

spud ,

no evidence has been provided though. and your accusation of bad faith is, itself, bad faith.

and I thought you were done.

Mastengwe ,

Blocking you now.

Sootius ,

They're right - You've said about 10 times "evidence has been provided" instead of taking ten seconds to add a link?

Mastengwe ,

Because they know evidence has been provided. I don’t entertain bad faith trolling. They’re part of the discussion and received the evidence in response.

fuckingkangaroos ,

I've had so many Lemmy.ml users argue in bad faith I usually don't talk to them anymore.

Mastengwe ,

Yeah, I try and give them a chance, but ultimately I end up having to block their nonsense.

AchtungDrempels ,

[Thread, post or comment was deleted by the author]

    •
    fuckingkangaroos ,

    I'm calling you insane now take your valuable time to go find proof so I can respond in bad faith

    After a while it's just not worth engaging anymore. I used to have a very positive attitude and the fediverse and would happy engage with lemmy.ml users. I'm fine wasting my time, it's what they want.

    AchtungDrempels ,

    [Thread, post or comment was deleted by the author]

    •
    fuckingkangaroos ,

    Enjoy your echo chamber.

    AchtungDrempels ,

    [Thread, post or comment was deleted by the author]

    •
    fuckingkangaroos ,

    I am absolutely open to accept the claims

    I just don't believe you. It's not worth my time to try debating people who will defend Lemmy.ml. I've been burned enough.

    Mastengwe ,

    Maybe because what’s being posted as proof is something you refuse to accept as proof. It’s there. People have provided proof several times over.

    I won’t be held responsible for your inability to accept it.

    spud ,

    I thought you were done

    Mastengwe ,

    k.

    diplodocus , (edited )
    @diplodocus@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

    This whole post has been like a gish gallop DDoS attack.

    AchtungDrempels ,

    Oh, that's a nice word i just learned.

    Yeah, i don't really understand what's going on here.

    GrayBackgroundMusic ,

    No. Defederating at the drop of a hat is stupid. You don't like it? Then you, YOU, block the instance.

    Aux ,

    I don't like defederation, but these clowns are asking for it for a very long time.

    diplodocus ,
    @diplodocus@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

    What’s funny is that Lemmy.ml users aren’t seeing this neolib nonsense because OP is temp. banned.

    Deceptichum ,
    @Deceptichum@sh.itjust.works avatar

    "Anything that isn't praising shitheaps like Stalin, Mao, or the Kims is neolib nonsense"

    Ensign_Crab ,

    I predicted this when lemmygrad got defederated. I said that neoliberals were gonna identify some other instance as the "tankie instance" and start campaigning to defederate from it.

    diplodocus , (edited )
    @diplodocus@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

    Many people are saying

    https://lemmy.sdf.org/pictrs/image/074b5c01-e1d7-4e13-9e67-03111cc13183.png

    DragonTypeWyvern ,

    Me: How's that AI search algorithm going, Google?

    Google: "Did you mean 'Scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds Dune?'"

    Deceptichum ,
    @Deceptichum@sh.itjust.works avatar

    Funny because it's always been those 3 instances this whole time, nothing ever changed in our dislike for them.

    DragonTypeWyvern ,

    As long as we all agree you don't actually care about rule violations, you're just mad they think differently than you.

    Ensign_Crab ,

    Uh huh. Once you've succeeded in defederating from .ml, in a few months, there will be another instance that neoliberals decide is full of tankies, and it will have always been those 4 instances.

    I called it last time and neoliberals don't change their desire to silence people to their left.

    Deceptichum ,
    @Deceptichum@sh.itjust.works avatar

    Sure mate. And tankies are not to my left in the slightest.

    Ensign_Crab ,

    And .ml is only the "tankie instance" because neoliberals found "tankie" to be an effective cudgel to silence people to their left. They don't have to be tankies to get the label.

    Deceptichum ,
    @Deceptichum@sh.itjust.works avatar

    Right, but I am AnCom call them tankies because they support the USSR & China.

    You can hate neolibs all you want, that doesn’t change the fact that CTH, Lemmygrad, & .ml are the tankie trifecta.

    Ensign_Crab ,

    CTH? I thought Hexbear was the first "tankie instance"

    See you when you guys get the urge to karen another instance.

    Deceptichum ,
    @Deceptichum@sh.itjust.works avatar

    Hexbear is CTH.

    When reddit banned CTH, some of the community went and made Hexbear, most of us stayed on reddit and due to the small userbase it become an incestral breeding ground that removed all but the most hardcore tankies and authiechuds leading to the shitheap it is today.

    Ensign_Crab ,

    Is CTH in the room with us right now? If so, how is lemmy.world gonna defederate from itself?

    Deceptichum ,
    @Deceptichum@sh.itjust.works avatar

    That doesn’t even make any sense?

    You’re so irrationally upset about people not liking tankie instances.

    Ensign_Crab ,

    I called it last time and got a pretty similar response.

    In a couple months once you've decided that some other instance is the tankie instance and want it gone, we'll have this conversation again.

    Gacrux ,
    @Gacrux@lemm.ee avatar

    my face when i signed up for lemmy.ml 2 months ago for fun and now they're being called 5 different political terms

    (their sign up verification test was "what is two plus two" back then)

    IndustryStandard , (edited )

    ml and Hexbear definitely don't have the same users. Their comments look very different. Hexbear is far more extreme in every way.

    wesley ,

    Hexbear is mostly just trolls in my experience. They like to brigade any discussion involving Russia, China, Ukraine, etc.

    Lemmy.ml is full of tankies that will also go out of their way to defend Russia and China but they aren't just blatant trolls which is the difference.

    Having controversial opinions isn't the problem, trolling and brigading are

    stoly ,

    This is also my take. Hex will troll you but ML folks actually think that you are an evil person because you don't agree with them on some minor point.

    TimewornTraveler ,

    actually think that you are an evil person because you don’t agree with them on some minor point.

    Right, this is the major issue for me. I am here for the community. This site doesn't have half the content that Reddit has. We're here on principle with each other. If you aren't trying to make some kind of a connection with me as a person, if you get lost in some singular bullshit nonsense comment I wrote at 10AM on an idle Tuesday, if you start to attribute beliefs and opinions to me that I don't have, if you're not willing to reconcile and coexist, then I have no interest in engaging with you. Makes it real hard to engage with some folks - especially Hexbear.

    bdonvr ,

    I wonder who they were trolling and brigading in the years of their existence prior to them federating with anyone...

    ArmokGoB OP ,

    I would need pretty convincing evidence to believe that the major .ml communities don't have at least one mod each with a Hexbear alt.

    h3ndrik , (edited )

    At some time we have to deal with this.

    Keep in mind that we like Lemmy for being a federated platform.

    I don't think there is enough awareness at this point. And the way we do it here, it has to come from the community. The people and mods have to become aware and make a decision to move their participation and the communities to another instance. I don't see a way around that. This will take some time, patience and effort.

    I've started to do my part and unsubscribed from !Fediverse I'm now going through my list of subscriptions and find alternatives to other communities, so I don't contribute to the lemmy.ml communities being the larges ones any more.

    [Edit: Wow. I've replaced 32 communities, some with substantially better alternatives, and I've found a few nice additional ones in the process. I still need recommendations for alternatives to: "Peertube", "Libre Culture", "Crawling the IndieWeb", "datahoarder", "Linux Phones", "postmarketOS", "osu!". I'm glad I did this. I think this is the way to make a change as a simple user. And now I'm not part of the problem anymore. It took me the better part of an hour, though.]

    fuckingkangaroos ,

    I'm just blocking the entire lemmy.ml instance. I've seen consistent problems from them, and nothing worth staying connected with.

    Wish I could help you find alternative communities but I'm not sure about the ones you mentioned. They'll grow over time if Lemmy survives.

    h3ndrik ,

    Thx. I found the most important communities to me. I'm glad most of them have an alternative and those are going strong. I can live with losing a few minor ones.

    Concerning "blocking them": I'm not sure. I was a strong opponent to the whole defederation and "safe-space" thing last year. Where especially beehaw.org decided to do their own thing and rigorously defederate, often preemptively and without talking to people. I think such behaviour splits the community and disconnects people. I really don't like all the drama, falling out with each other and particularism. And I think all the feud is a sure way to kill the platform before it even took off with the general public... Honestly, I'm slowly changing my mind. Give me some more time.

    fuckingkangaroos ,

    I agree with your general point but

    splits the community and disconnects people

    They aren't people like you and I. They're paid shills at best and KremlinGPT at worst. I think to survive and flourish as a platform Lemmy will have to aggressively fight back against authoritarian disinformation. As it stands, I won't even admit to anyone that I use it because it so full of propaganda.

    hark ,
    @hark@lemmy.world avatar

    "Everyone I disagree with is a shill and all ideas I disagree with are propaganda"

    fuckingkangaroos ,

    Mocking me instead of responding to what I said is a good indicator you have no reasonable response.

    hark , (edited )
    @hark@lemmy.world avatar

    It's a good indicator that what you said was worthy of mockery. Mockery is a reasonable response for someone who thinks everyone you disagree with is a shill and that all ideas that you disagree with are propaganda.

    h3ndrik ,

    Well, they're a bit over the top and oversimplifying things in my opinion. But you're also not contributing anything of value. You could instead add your perspective if it's different. I mean I'd probably read it and it'd get us ...anywhere?...

    hark ,
    @hark@lemmy.world avatar

    I'm pointing out that they're dismissing all opposing views as propaganda from shills, which itself is not contributing anything or in fact contributing negative value because it reduces discussions down to "my opinion is the one real truth and anyone who disagrees is a shill". Pointing this out is my contribution, but for some reason this needs to be argued to the point of meaninglessness.

    fuckingkangaroos ,

    they're dismissing all opposing views as propaganda from shills

    No I'm not, and you know it.

    federatingIsTooHard ,
    @federatingIsTooHard@lemmy.world avatar

    all ideas that you disagree with are propaganda.

    all media is propaganda.

    h3ndrik , (edited )

    It is a bit more nuanced than that. There are normal people there, too. It's been one of the largest instances when the Reddit exodus happened. Some of the users chose the largest and the 'official' instance. And some of them are still there.

    But lemmy.ml is operated by the same people who also run lemmygrad, some moderators seem to be the same. And unfortunately the whole Lemmy software platform is developed by "those" people.

    I don't mind leaning a good amount to the left. I think a few socialist values would advance society and economy. Especially in places like the USA. And I've been called a communist for that. But being a tankie is beyond my comprehension. Why would anyone like Putin, defend the CCP and what they do to people. And I'm not overly bothered with the left vs right. It's the constant yelling, being super argumentative, doing brigading and spreading misinformation.

    I think things are changing. I'm paying attention now to the usernames in the comments. And lemmy.ml isn't the dominating place anymore. Most of the usernames I see come from a broad range of instances. And that's a good thing. It's still a home to some big communities which needs to change, too. And I'm also waiting for a new software to come along, written by different people with a different motivation and agenda. In my opinion that's one of the next steps to emancipate ourselves. I mean if you don't like lemmy.ml you probably don't like the people making the decisions there. Which unfortunately are the same people who also write all of the Lemmy software. And their software development decisions reflect the same attitude. But also that's going to change. A few people are working on good alternatives which strive to listen to the community, invite people to participate and also finally implement proper moderation tools and a few other tweaks to foster good behaviour.

    I like Lemmy. But this platform had a hard time from the start. And it's still struggling. Mixing technological difficulties and innate problems of growing a community with drama, bad decisions, waywardness and friction within the community on many different levels is just stupid and unnecessary. But I'm still waiting for progress and a bright future. I think Federation is one of the best approaches with some potential to make that happen.

    I think the solid technological basis is what I'm a bit more concerned as of now. But apart from that I agree that it is us, the community who sets the tone and we decide who we want to listen to, nice people or people with behaviour disorders and an attitude. And it's a vicious circle. At some point a platform has an image and is bound to tip and attract more like-minded people and less normal ones. And the dynamics are there and we need to actively fight for a nice place.

    fuckingkangaroos ,

    Well said, I agree with all of that. I'm considerably more to the left as well, that's part of why I hate lemmy.ml, because they're preventing actual good growth and movement in that direction.

    Hopefully Mbin or some other one of the new forks/platforms takes off soon. I'm ready to move if necessary, I love the idea of a healthy Fediverse and I hope some day I can recommend it to friends instead of being too embarrassed to admit I use it because of all the propaganda.

    wakumul ,

    you can leave literally any time. there are dozens of instances, you don't need to stay on flagship instances. you might like truth.social, which runs mastodon's software, or gab.com which does the same.

    fuckingkangaroos ,

    Thank you very much, you can leave too.

    wakumul ,

    i'm not the one whining about the user base

    assassin_aragorn ,

    That's something I've recently realized. They think people dislike them because they're leftist, but that has very little to do with it. Some of their harshest critics are from the left.

    They have no idea it's because of their authoritarian simping, and every time you call them out on it, they deflect. Frankly they more strongly support fascist regimes than their criticizers.

    fuckingkangaroos ,

    I think the paid shills know what's going on, they're told to act like leftists and probably don't actually hold those beliefs. They might be brainwashed to think the CCP/Kremlin is good.

    So in my opinion they pretend people are "upset that they're leftist" in order to avoid people focusing on their actual motives.

    h3ndrik ,

    Sure. I personally am waiting for PieFed to come along. They seem to know what's important to address and also have some good ideas how to tackle it.

    I'm 100% ready to support that and focus my engagement there. I'm pretty sure just changing the software codebase isn't changing too much... But I'd like some more independence from the few people currently doing everything.

    And that's also what I've done. I haven't recommended Lemmy to friends and family, yet. And I've refrained from running my own instance, too. Despite having the server ready for that.

    fuckingkangaroos ,

    Thanks I'll keep an eye on it. Sad to be eager to abandon ship already, but it's not surprising that the fediverse will have some growing pains. The core value and promise of healthy social media is still there and I love it.

    h3ndrik ,

    I mean the great thing about this architecture is, we don't need to abandon ship. I'm deliberately waiting for something that will be compatible with it. And it'll be the same community. Just a different software with a few much needed things on top.

    And I'm kind of passionate about it in the first place, because I like this place. And we have to pay attention not to fall out with each other about details. Sometimes it's just not easy.

    fuckingkangaroos ,

    Ah thanks for explaining. It would be fantastic to export settings and connect to current communities instead of starting from scratch

    TragicNotCute Mod ,
    @TragicNotCute@lemmy.world avatar

    I think saying that any group of humans “aren’t people” isn’t being respectful of others. Please stop.

    fuckingkangaroos ,

    Intentionally misunderstanding what I said at best, defending propaganda from genocidal authoritarians at worst.

    TragicNotCute Mod ,
    @TragicNotCute@lemmy.world avatar

    I don’t care about the content of what you are talking about. The community rules say to be respectful of others. And you aren’t. I asked you to stop but you want to argue.

    fuckingkangaroos ,

    I don't think shills are people on here in the same way genuine users are, I stand by that. They're representing authoritarian governments, not themselves.

    If you want people to be respectful of others, how about addressing shills who are defending the Kremlin's genocide in Ukraine? It would be respectful to Ukrainians to acknowledge all of their suffering and close the door on propaganda from their oppressors.

    TragicNotCute Mod ,
    @TragicNotCute@lemmy.world avatar

    Implying that those who disagree with you are subhuman is right out of the fascism playbook and it's definitely not being respectful of others. You can hold that opinion and you can even broadcast it widely on the internet. The rules in this community says to be respectful of others and that by it's very definition is not. I'm not interested in arguing further, and I'm definitely not interesting in talking geopolitics with you. I want you to be respectful of others and if you can't, I'll remove the content and ban you from the community. If others are not being respectful, report them and I'll review that too.

    fuckingkangaroos ,

    Implying that those who disagree with you are subhuman

    I'm not saying that and you know it. Why use a straw man argument instead of addressing what I said?

    good_girl ,
    @good_girl@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    They aren’t people like you and I. They’re paid shills at best and KremlinGPT at worst.

    Oh shit i get paid?

    Mastengwe ,

    It’s what I did. I’m not missing a thing.

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