Tried Arch for the first time | My experience and impressions ( lemmy.ml )

I used linux intermittently in the last 15 or so years, migrating from early Ubuntu versions, to Manjaro, Pop!_OS, Debian, etc. And decided to give Arch a try just recently; with all the memes around its high entry point, I was really expecting to struggle for a long time to set it up just as I want.

Disclaimer: your mileage may vary. I’ve been using some sort of unix CLI since the time I learned to pee standing (last year?), and in case of Arch this prerequisite makes the whole process a lot simpler.

Learning curve

The installation process itself was quite simple. Perhaps the most complicated part was the disk partitioning and setting up the bootloader, as I’ve never done it myself. But then again — on any other OS you kind of have to do the same, except maybe through the GUI and not CLI.

One thing you quickly learn when using Arch — is you always should consult their wiki. Actually, “consult” is an understatement; let me put it this way, on the hierarchy of usefulness: there’s reddit, then stackexchange, then random “how-to” websites, then your logic, and then there is the Arch wiki. Exactly in that order, since your logic may betray you, but not the Wiki. Jokes aside though, they’ve somehow managed to document every minute detail, with specific troubleshooting for almost any combination of hardware out there. This is incredible, and as a person who also spends a lot of time writing documentations — hats off to the devs and the community.

Once you learn how the daemons work, how pacman and AUR packages work — the rest is actually quite similar to any other OS. Except that Arch, even with a bloated DE is frigging fast and eats very little battery. I actually use CLI package installation also in Windows (winget) or MacOS (brew), so learning to use another package manager was not too steep.

Drivers

The main caveats actually come when you want specific drivers for your specific hardware. For instance, the out-of-the-box drivers for my laptop speakers were horrible, with the sound seemingly coming from someone’s redacted (never checked, perhaps it was). But that could quickly be tweaked with the “pipewire/easyeffects” with custom profiles which you may find on the web.

GPU drivers were not really that much of an issue for me (if I actually read the wiki properly). Enabling GPU acceleration in some of the apps (like Blender) required the AMD HIP toolkit installed (they have Arch support) with some minor tweaks in the Blender configs. Similarly, the camera, mic and bluetooth drivers were available as AURs or even native pacman packages.

Caveats

Caveats that come with Arch are actually shared among almost all linux distros (or more specifically — DEs). Support of Wayland, while improving gradually over the years (with a great leap forward in Plasma 6), still sucks majestically. Luckily, for many of the most popular apps (slack, zoom), there are third-party AUR packages supporting Wayland natively (I spent a lot of time looking for exactly that on Debian with no success)! All of the apps I needed I actually found with the Wayland support in AURs, but, again, your mileage may vary.

Takeaways

I’d say if you just bought a fresh out-of-store laptop with no data on it to worry about — you should definitely give Arch a try, even if you’re a beginner. Once you fail a couple of times (like I did), you’ll not only learn a lot more about the behind-the-scenes working of your own computer, but will end up having one of the fastest and efficient OS-es out there, which you will now be able to configure to your exact liking.

Unfortunately, I’ve never been able to really daily-drive Linux (and this Arch experiment is no exception). Don’t get me wrong: I love linux and the idea of having independent open-source and infinitely customizable OS. But unfortunately I professionally rely on some of the apps, that have no viable alternatives for Linux (PowerPoint, Photoshop, Illustrator, Proton Drive).

PS. “but what about GIMP, or Krita, or Inkscape, or OpenOffice, or using rsync for cloud storage, or <YOUR_FAVORITE_TOOL>?” you may ask. Trust me, I tried it all. Every last presentation, raster/vector graphics software out there. Regardless of how much I hate Adobe, their software is top tier, and until GIMP becomes the Blender of graphic design, I can’t really rely use it for most of my purposes :(

elucubra ,

I have a windows VM to use Affinity (Photo, Publisher, and Designer), a Pro level suite that will be fine for most work, and is pay once, not subscription.

I use office online, as a PWA.

I very rarely have to boot into Windows.

hayk OP ,

What do you actually use as a VM backend? VirtualBox limits the VRam you can allocate, and other options (vmware) I’m not even sure work with linux.

therealjcdenton ,
@therealjcdenton@lemmy.zip avatar

I love this image

flashgnash ,

Image is inaccurate, the one installing arch has friends taking an interest

hayk OP ,

In the old days laptops were rare and accessible only to selected few. The others in the background were just admiring the flawless handwork the arch user is displaying with the command line.

Templa ,
@Templa@beehaw.org avatar

Offtopic but the dude on the right looks like he has something eldritch going on

fxdave ,

Try donating projects you would like to use. If your adobe subscription amount is going to gimp and inkscape, you are buying yourself into the future of freedom. If you buy adobe, you will limit yourself more and more.

hayk OP ,

How much do you think I earn to afford paying for Office or Adobe? :) i’ve never paid for any of those, even though I’ve been using Adobe since CS5.

As for donating: i agree, for now i sometimes help in contributing to the codebase in a bit smaller apps i actually can fix things in.

MigratingtoLemmy ,

Out of curiosity, how did you piss before?

Aye, well, the Arch install process is almost like a rite-of-passage in learning more about Linux. Do Gentoo next, and good work!

hayk OP ,

Out of curiosity, how did you piss before?

lying on my back like all normal people

Do Gentoo next, and good work!

was planning Nix to understand the whole reproducible build idea, but Gentoo is a good suggestion too! will try that

MigratingtoLemmy ,

What is your opinion on gravity?

hayk OP ,

A free-falling observer lives in a locally Minkowskian space-time, so feels no such thing. So I like my metric flat.

gwildors_gill_slits ,

I had the same experience. Despite all the doomsaying online I found the installation and configuration process pretty straightforward thanks to the quality documentation.

baggins ,
@baggins@beehaw.org avatar

Excellent work - I currently run Endeavour on a PC and laptop. This article has almost made me brave enough to try a bare bones build of Arch on the laptop :-)

Ansis ,

Unrelated - I love that picture. I want it as a wallpaper but it's way too square. Do you have some source where I could get a higher definition, wider and/or taller version?

Red5 ,
@Red5@lemmygrad.ml avatar

It’s definitely AI, so the original is probably square too

hayk OP ,

unfortunately, it's a product of imagination of an overpowered progenitor of our future overlords, otherwise known as GPT-4. and apparently, it still does not want to produce 16x10 images (that is, unless you give it a sacrifice in the form of monthly subscriptions). but feel free to use the image for whatever purposes )

Laser ,

As far as I know, you can use ChatGPT without a subscription, but still paid. I found https://nano-gpt.com/get-started the other day where you pay with cryptocurrency per request, I guess someone behind the scenes is paying the subscription and is offering this as a service. The model behind can be chosen. So in case you have some lying around, you can just use that, or if there's more interest from others, give me the prompt and I'll pay for it, still have Nano around.

magikmw ,

My Linux usage was: Ubuntu, then Arch, then I got tired of it and took a break from Linux. I found Fedora KDE in 2017 and been using it ever since. Only reinstalled once to switch to btrfs and it went surprisingly smooth.

I like Arch, and I love the wiki, but I appreciate sane defaults and ease of use. I'd rather optimize down than pull features out of repos.

Another distro I'd check would be Suse, or one of the immutables, starting with the Fedora KDE one. When I have time for it.

aleph ,
@aleph@lemm.ee avatar

As a Photoshop replacement, there's Photopea.

It's not as heavy duty, but the layout/tools are pretty much the same so it feels significantly more intuitive of you're used to the PS way of doing things than Krita, GIMP, etc .

hayk OP ,

tried it... :( not really a replacement for me

possiblylinux127 , (edited )
@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip avatar

I never really understood the desire for Arch

Edit: more like the desires of Arch people

survivalmachine ,

You trade a little system stability for bleeding-edge package access.

possiblylinux127 ,
@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip avatar

It seems to be geared toward people who want to constantly maintain there system. I'm surprised at the number of people who like to tinker and often break the OS they daily drive. I use Linux because it protects my freedom and is low maintenance.

I guess the benefit of Linux is freedom of choice

Phanatik ,

One of the simplest ways to safeguard against breakage is to have your /home on a separate partition. I realised I wouldn't need to backup and reformat it from the beginning, I just need to wipe the root drive and reinstall again.

It's made even easier by writing an installation script. Simply put, you can pipe a list of packages into packstrap and use a little convenience package for pulling a partition scheme out of a file.

I like to tinker and I'm aware that things will break so I have these tools that let me rebuild the system again in as short a time as possible.

nous ,

You dont even need a separate partition, just delete the non-home directories and reinstall. pacstrap might even do that for you 🤔 it has been a while since i last needed to reinstall. And most of the time you dont even need a full reinstall, Arch is trivial to fix most things from a live cd by partially following the install process - most often get a chroot and start reinstalling select packages/configs in some of the worst case scenarios.

hayk OP ,

yes, i think we can all agree at least on the last point: that developing forward as a community, any Linux is better than corporate OSs. not because they're evil products of capitalist agenda (even though that's the case), but because developing them allows you to have a choice, and also incentivizes large companies to meet these security and freedom standards.

nous ,

It seems to be geared toward people who want to constantly maintain there system

That is where your assumptions are wrong. It is for people that know how and want control over their setup. But after the initial setup maintenance is no worst that any other distro - simpler even in the longer term. Just update your packages and very occasionally manually update a config somewhere or run an extra command before hand (I honestly cannot remember the last time I even needed to do that much...). Far easier than needing to reinstall or fix a whole bunch of broken things after a major system upgrade that happens every few years on other distros.

People that like to tinker and break their system can do that on any distro. That does not mean it is high maintenance, quite the opposite in fact as it is easier to fix as Arch is generally easier to fix when you do break something (so does attract people that do like to tinker). But leave it alone and it wont just randomly break every week like so many people seem to think it does.

octopus_ink ,

I’m surprised at the number of people who like to tinker and often break the OS they daily drive.

People who don't use Arch or a derivative (or have tried once but didn't stay long enough to get comfortable with how it works) seem to think this happens much more than it does

I run the command "yay" once a day if I think of it, every few days if I don't.

A little less often than that, whenever I think of it, I spend 5 minutes checking for pacnew files (admittedly THIS is potentially a pain compared to other distros, but EOS has a tool that makes it pretty easy)

That's pretty much it.

Technically you should check the main Arch/EOS/Manjaro page before updating because in the rare event that manual intervention is required there will be instructions there. I usually don't, and haven't had a showstopper from it yet.

I can't remember the last time it took me longer than download time + 5 minutes to upgrade my EOS system, and that includes the recent transition to Plasma 6.

possiblylinux127 ,
@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip avatar

Yeah I don't want to have to take time to maintain my system. Manual intervention is not something I would ever want to do.

If you like it that's fine but it is a weird thing to brag about.

octopus_ink ,

If you like it that’s fine but it is a weird thing to brag about.

Brag? lol ok. Have a good one!

Petter1 ,

Have you seen how the AUR works?

possiblylinux127 , (edited )
@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip avatar

Yes, it is not confidence inspiring

Petter1 ,

Sorry, I don’t understand what you try to say here…

possiblylinux127 ,
@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip avatar

Damn auto complete

aleph , (edited )
@aleph@lemm.ee avatar
  • Community-driven distro
  • Bleeding edge software
  • Rolling release instead of point release
  • Amazing software availability
  • Highly customizable
  • Documentation and community support
possiblylinux127 ,
@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip avatar

I suppose it can't be to bad as it seems to be pretty popular

hayk OP ,

yeah, i mean apart from people satisfying their masochistic desires and highlighting their moral superiority by using CLI (look mama, ima hacker), Arch is genuinely a great OS. and, honestly, like i argued in my post, not as "masochistic" to install as people paint it to be.

ProtonBadger ,

There are other distros with the same points, they're not unique, save for the wiki. A lot of users of other distros refer to the Arch wiki. The AUR is much celebrated but I personally found it annoying having to carefully vet every package and having moved to another distro I don't miss it.

I think the main reason to choose Arch is it's for tinkerers/hobbyists. Its community is very enthusiastic which is always nice, though many can become a bit obnoxious on forums.

aleph ,
@aleph@lemm.ee avatar

There are other distros with the same points, they're not unique, save for the wiki.

Are there? Like what?

LeFantome , (edited )

I am really curious to see what happens with GIMP when they finally release 3.0 ( before May hopefully ).

3.0 will introduce CMYK, non-destructive editing, and other pro-level features. So it will be interesting to see if more people suddenly find that it is a viable Photoshop alternative.

Even more interesting potentially is that nee features can actually ship. It has literally been years now that new ideas get lost in dev versions that nobody uses. Going forward, improvements can be added to stable releases that people will actually use. It could be a game changer for the project.

magikmw ,

I hope GIMP 3.0 is the blender moment for GIMP. We'll see.

hayk OP ,

I very much hope so too!!! i made myself to drift away from the Fusion 360 (they just took it a step further by moving a lot of stuff to the cloud) towards the FreeCad, and am enjoying its capabilities ever since. hope the same happens to GIMP. and it's not about getting used to it after Photoshop, it just really lacks some of the basic functionality i absolutely need.

Pantherina , (edited )

OpenOffice is dead since years, Libreoffice is what is used today :D

Btw Inkscape is said to be quite good. GIMP 3.0 will have color profiles and nondestructive filters.

I used Libreoffice Impress instead of Powerpoint recently.

  • you will need to learn the core concepts new, master slides etc.
  • once you have your own templates, presentations will be very nice
  • you dont get AI bullshit templates so more manual work but more authentic presentations
  • same for hunting down icons, stock images etc.
  • for collaborating OnlyOffice is used, integrated into Nextcloud. OnlyOffice has a Desktop Client, but I dont see the reason, Libreoffice is more feature complete.
magikmw , (edited )

Honestly I recommend to anyone who can do some html and css to try Animotion or some other reveal.js based framework.
I can't look at PowerPoint and derivatives anymore.

Edit: actual link, but check the other tool too!
https://animotion.pages.dev/

Merlin13245 ,

Https://animotion.dev for anyone curious. I just checked it out myself and holy... This is awesome!

magikmw ,

I ment this, poor naming clash.
Your link is interesting too!

https://animotion.pages.dev/

hayk OP ,

sorry, i really meant OnlyOffice. though i tried LibreOffice as well, you can see my breakdown in this post

prole ,
@prole@sh.itjust.works avatar

I just switched to Linux for the first time last year, and I've been using EndeavourOS, which I've been told is like Arch with training wheels, and my experience has been fantastic. In case anyone wants a slightly easier way to peek at Arch.

LeFantome ,

Honestly EndeavourOS is Arch once it is installed. As I have said before, EOS is more of an alternative installer with sensible defaults. 99.9% of the packages installed will be from the Arch repos or the AUR. Even the kernel is vanilla Arch.

I can install Arch. If I am bringing up a new system, I almost always reach for EOS instead. EOS has switched to KDE as the default DE. I still prefer XFCE myself.

Petter1 ,

Why not just use archinstall? Is way faster 😁

Anticorp ,

Do you mean the script? That's pretty much what Manjaro is to my knowledge, Arch with an installer script.

Petter1 ,

Hu? No, manjaro breaks if you use the AUR with it, at least any time I tried, lol
Manjaro has drifted far from arch since it’s start of existence.
What you are talking about sounds more like EOS.

ProtonBadger ,

I don't use Arch at all but isn't EOS using Calamares? You click a few times, selecting language, timezone and click install, then go make a coffee while it installs. Difficult to be way faster than that. You can save maybe 30sec by not having any options.

Petter1 ,

Archinstall is CLI tool where you choose same stuff as in Calamares. So you have same choices but it boots faster (because no GUI) and choosing the options is faster as well in cli, if you already know what you want.

Archinstall script is ready to use on the ArchISO, you just need internet and type "sudo archinstall"

Petter1 ,

Instead of fancy EOS GUI installer you can just use the archinstall pythonscript by typing sudo archinstall in the tty console of the booted archISO, I see no difference in the results 😇

Anticorp ,

Are there commands to exclude packages you don't need or want? Part of what makes Arch special is that you get only what you need and nothing else.

Petter1 ,

Yes you can

But what Arch makes Arch is that it can be whatever you want it to be. Mine is fully bloated, lol

hayk OP ,

honestly, i like the idea of Arch being completely bare bone. you can then keep track of everything you install afterwards, and that helps a lot when later you try to troubleshoot any issues, since you know exactly what's installed, what's modified, and what's running in the background.

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