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TCB13 , (edited )
@TCB13@lemmy.world avatar

"There's a school in Wisconsin that is so underfunded that they only have very old computers and the person running it barely knows hat's a computer and thus won't ever create a budget or approve new systems. Furthermore this school is so irrelevant they aren't even able to qualify for free software from Microsoft. A bored teacher saved the day and made the old computers somewhat useful by installing Linux on his spare time. Of course all of this doesn't come for free, the current generation of students never used a computer at home, just mobile devices, and are being robbed of learning a valuable and required skill for any future job - basic Windows and Office usage."

There, article fixed for you.

kadu ,
@kadu@lemmy.world avatar

basic Windows and Office usage

lol

possiblylinux127 OP ,
@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip avatar

Just like people are constantly using Fax machines

roguetrick ,

Why put this much effort in trying to getting banned? Is making up a story based on the headline a creative writing exercise for you?

TCB13 ,
@TCB13@lemmy.world avatar

Ahahaha, I like to think about all possible sides of a situation.

NuclearDolphin ,

What about this situation where kids don't have enough knowledge to give informed consent to being spied on and profiled for the rest of their adult lives?

TCB13 ,
@TCB13@lemmy.world avatar

Once again, people should learn both and be aware of the differences as I said somewhere.

theneverfox ,
@theneverfox@pawb.social avatar

That part was good... The pointless Microsoft dick sucking ruined what could have been an insightful point though

possiblylinux127 OP ,
@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip avatar

I'm not sure why you would ban someone for having an opinion. I don't agree with it but they don't deserve to be censored.

roguetrick ,

Just making shit up for ragebait is trolling my friend, it's not having an opinion. What he posted has no relation to the interview.

possiblylinux127 OP ,
@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip avatar

I'm not sure what the benefit of posting something to try to get down votes. The person obviously has a opinion that is unpopular. I've heard the Office argument before from others.

clickyello ,

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(slang)

TimeSquirrel ,
@TimeSquirrel@kbin.social avatar

a valuable and required skill for any future job - basic Windows and Office usage.

Not everybody is a data-entry drone. I have no use for it, and I have a technical career.

TCB13 , (edited )
@TCB13@lemmy.world avatar

Not everybody is a data-entry drone. I have no use for it, and I’m in a technical career.

Your manager, that most likely started his career as a tech person as most tech manager do, likely uses Office a lot and he certainly isn't a data-entry drone. One day as you progress in your career you'll too.

PS: whoever doesn't understand this comment and downvote right away should really think about their life. If one doesn't understand that a manager does need to be proficient in MS Office then you'll never get there / have a very hard time.

TimeSquirrel ,
@TimeSquirrel@kbin.social avatar

There's nothing that anyone can do in 2024 in the MS Office suite of applications specifically that I can't find a third party or cloud equivalent of to do the exact same thing.

TCB13 ,
@TCB13@lemmy.world avatar

There’s nothing that anyone can do in 2024 in the MS Office suite of applications specifically that I can’t find a third party or cloud equivalent of to do the exact same thing.

This isn't true. It might be close to true for a lot of situations, but not true at all. And the issue here isn't that there isn't an alternative, those students can learn LibreOffice and do almost everything they need with it, however once they get into a job and the company uses MS Office they won't be be able to pick the work right away and be as productive as their peers will be. Imagine one of those students tried to apply for a backoffice job at a bank, they'll most likely test the person's Office skills and the student may not be able to compete the assessment and have an inferior grade to another one who always had MS Office at his school.

I'm all for FOSS but we must be very responsible when it comes to what we expose young people to and how that may impact their careers on the long run. They should have exposure to Linux, LibreOffice and have a basic understanding of them but they shouldn't be robbed of valuable jobs skills that may make a difference just because.

possiblylinux127 OP ,
@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip avatar

Most young people are unfamiliar with Office. Once the older generation retires Office is probably going to be dead.

TCB13 ,
@TCB13@lemmy.world avatar

No it won't. What you see is that younger generation (millennials that actually know a bit of Office) getting slandered as soon as they're promoted and required to use those tools. They eventually learn them and are productive but it takes more time than it should. Precisely because of what you said is the reason why those generations should be exposed to said software - after all some of them will be managers, layers and other types of professionals that will keep using those tools.

possiblylinux127 OP ,
@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip avatar

What will they use Word and Excel for that can't be replaced by docs and calc? We already have automated time tracking software.

SexualPolytope ,
@SexualPolytope@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Telemetry.

Spectacle8011 ,
@Spectacle8011@lemmy.comfysnug.space avatar

VBA scripts. I have a friend who works in the radio/telcom industry...but ends up doing a bunch of other stuff. This friend makes extensive use of VBA scripts to get the job done. You can't do that on the web version, and you can't do it in Calc.

Word is just for document interchange. Other businesses and clients use Word documents, and they don't display reliably correctly in any other program but Word.

possiblylinux127 OP ,
@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip avatar

VBA scripts are notorious for being security weaknesses but I guess they are still used in some places

Spectacle8011 ,
@Spectacle8011@lemmy.comfysnug.space avatar

My friend's response:

Yep, but they make shit so much easier

They took my 2 weeks of turning CSVs into other CSVs into 2 days

🤷‍♀️

JackGreenEarth ,
@JackGreenEarth@lemm.ee avatar

Oh, so you should suck up to Microsoft being incompatible with their own standard because they're incompatible with their own stabdard? Is that basically what you're saying? And also, you can use odt in Microsoft Word, which is interoperable with LibreOffice and Google Docs

Spectacle8011 ,
@Spectacle8011@lemmy.comfysnug.space avatar

Oh, so you should suck up to Microsoft being incompatible with their own standard because they’re incompatible with their own stabdard? Is that basically what you’re saying?

I don't use Microsoft Office, but I use Adobe. If the people I collaborate with or I work for use Adobe and need to edit my files, I'm not going to give them something done in Scribus instead of inDesign. That would be doing a bad job and also limiting their choices significantly with who they can go with in the future to edit their files. Same principle applies to Microsoft Office.

TCB13 ,
@TCB13@lemmy.world avatar

Mostly because if you’re working on a MS centric company and you’ve a lot of integration with other MS tools people then need Word and Excel. Besides, Zoom is the biggest piece of shit communication software out there, MS Teams is way way better both in call quality and in screen sharing. Zoom doesn’t even come close to MS Teams on that last one. Once you’ve documentation with dynamic references to other people, meetings, excel sharing data to and from sharepoint and sometimes NAV then it gets really hard to use docs. Besides calc can’t still do some advanced formula features.

possiblylinux127 OP ,
@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip avatar

Since when does a manager need office? This isn't 1998

Not to mention most of the younger generation grew up with Chromebooks.

NuclearDolphin ,

Useless manager detected

LeFantome ,

You are already drowning in downvotes. Certainly managers are going to have to use office software. I do not think that using Microsoft Offce in school makes it any more likely that you will become a manager.

Most managers are really not that great at using Ofice and, what they know, they learned on the job. Learning to use PowerPoint is more about leaning how to present and communicate in general. A course on the software is not going to teach that and knowing how to use LibreOffice Impress gives you more than enough expertise. In terms of presentation, the marketing department typically dictates the look and feel. You just need to populate a template. None of the executives I know use anything advanced out of Microsoft Word. If you can “track changes”, you can collaborate on documents. Really the only application that managers are likely to have any specialist knowledge around is Excel. I will admit that knowing Excel specifically vs other spreadsheet applications is useful. Being able to do a VLOOKUP, a pivot table, or even just proper multi-sheet formulas is useful. Even just being able to format effectively can make a difference in how professionally you come across. Honestly though, the Internet is littered with $19 Excel courses. Take one.

TCB13 ,
@TCB13@lemmy.world avatar

You are already drowning in downvotes.

So what? I'm not a politician running a politically correct popularity contest and saying what people want to hear to win votes. I'm just stating what is omitted from the article and what is a fact as you eventually got there:

Really the only application that managers are likely to have any specialist knowledge around is Excel. I will admit that knowing Excel specifically vs other spreadsheet applications is useful. Being able to do a VLOOKUP, a pivot table, or even just proper multi-sheet formulas is useful

Honestly though, the Internet is littered with $19 Excel courses. Take one.

Yes, and will a gen-Z take them? Isn't just easier to gradually expose them to those tools so they learn naturally without the pressure of getting to some job?

possiblylinux127 OP ,
@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip avatar

Also Libreoffice works just as well

DmMacniel ,

Sure basic windows and office usage is sure a required skill.

You don't even use windows that much in any future job. You use the software solutions you are given as a wage slave. And most of them run in a browser.

Also cool that this school is unimportant for Microsoft. But for the students, teachers and parents its certainly ain't.

TCB13 ,
@TCB13@lemmy.world avatar

You don’t even use windows that much in any future job. You use the software solutions you are given as a wage slave

So you're assuming there aren't "wage slaves" doing data entry on MS Office and also that 0% of those students won't ever be managers or hold any other more high level job that does require those tools. So you must be against teaching financial literacy at school as well because "they won't ever invest anything". Great job, let's keep the peasants illiterate in everything they actually need to climb the ladder.

possiblylinux127 OP ,
@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip avatar

You can learn Windows pretty quickly. Also this is much better than giving students locked down Chromebooks

TCB13 ,
@TCB13@lemmy.world avatar

Also this is much better than giving students locked down Chromebooks

Oh yes, but still can pose a problem. Imagine one of those students tried to apply for a backoffice job at a bank, they’ll most likely test the person’s Office skills and the student may not be able to compete the assessment and have an inferior grade to another one who always had MS Office at his school.

possiblylinux127 OP ,
@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip avatar

I've never ever heard of that happening. It was a problem 5-8 years ago but now its not expected.

TCB13 ,
@TCB13@lemmy.world avatar

Oh but it happens.

Zirconium ,

Because they can't learn to put words and numbers in excel. How skillful do you think they're gonna get from one semester in excel?

TCB13 ,
@TCB13@lemmy.world avatar

One semester in Excel you have time to learn how to use it for almost everything.

pivot_root ,

Good luck teaching middle schoolers how to use a pivot table when there's barely enough time to teach the basics of Excel's convoluted user interface.

olympicyes ,

Maybe they don’t give up that easily.

DmMacniel ,

Wouldnt you keep them computer illiterate when you teach them exclusively how to use Microsoft Windows and Microsoft Office?

Also that's a big jump to assume that I would be against financial literacy.

TCB13 ,
@TCB13@lemmy.world avatar

Wouldnt you keep them computer illiterate when you teach them exclusively how to use Microsoft Windows and Microsoft Office?

As I said on another comment:

Students can and should learn Linux / LibreOffice and can most likely do almost everything they need with it, however once they get into a job and the company uses MS Office they won’t be be able to pick the work right away and be as productive as their peers will be. Imagine one of those students tried to apply for a backoffice job at a bank, they’ll most likely test the person’s Office skills and the student may not be able to compete the assessment and have an inferior grade to another one who always had MS Office at his school.

I’m all for FOSS but we must be very responsible when it comes to what we expose young people to and how that may impact their careers on the long run. They should have exposure to Linux, LibreOffice and have a basic understanding of them but they shouldn’t be robbed of valuable jobs skills that may make a difference just because.

pivot_root ,

Or, teach them both LibreOffice and Office 365. They'll have more technical literacy by learning to adapt to new situations rather than relying on clicking this button here and that button there.

TCB13 ,
@TCB13@lemmy.world avatar

Did you even read my comment? That’s what I said.

pivot_root ,

Apparently, I did not. Or I might have replied to the wrong comment. Either way, my apologies.

TCB13 ,
@TCB13@lemmy.world avatar

No problem 😂 We were just saying the same thing.

DmMacniel ,

If you can only use a word processor because it looks like the one you have been trained on then you are computer illiterate. That's not something a school should proliferate.

TCB13 ,
@TCB13@lemmy.world avatar

You aren’t wrong, but that’s besides the point. The point is that even if you’re decently computer savvy and you can switch around between programs you’ll always be better and faster at advanced features on the one you used more hours. If you say this never happens to you then you’ve never been exposed to a program for enough time to actually learn it from top to bottom.

DmMacniel ,

Well that's undeniable. But, coming back to this school, do you think that they could afford licenses for the latest MS Office and or MS Windows? No they would teach with one or more generations ago where things are laid out and function totally different.

So you get the same issues you are complaining right now and nobody gained anything.

TCB13 ,
@TCB13@lemmy.world avatar

But, coming back to this school, do you think that they could afford licenses for the latest MS Office and or MS Windows?

Microsoft typically offers licenses to education... and when it comes to Windows it doesn't even matter as most retailers already sell machines with Windows licenses with very competitive prices. It's usual to see bigger retailers selling computers with a Windows license at the same price a smaller retailer would do without license just because they've the volume and get good deals from both Microsoft and hardware vendors.

I'm not complaining, just stating something that should be taken into consideration.

DmMacniel ,

Microsoft typically offers licenses to education...

Well apparently bit in this case as it's too unimportant, as you said.

TCB13 ,
@TCB13@lemmy.world avatar

Who knows if they ever asked?

DmMacniel ,

Well, you said.

TCB13 ,
@TCB13@lemmy.world avatar

That's fair but I was extrapolating a bit there. After all unless their IT department and IT related teachers were really inept they would've know that Microsoft offers things to education and would've got them.

pivot_root ,

There's OpenOffice and LibreOffice. There's even Google Docs or Office 365, which run in a web browser.

Microsoft Office for Windows is about as useful as manufacturer-installed bloatware these days.

TCB13 ,
@TCB13@lemmy.world avatar

Except for the fact that it is what every major company out there uses lol

possiblylinux127 OP ,
@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip avatar

They could upgrade at this point but it doesn't make any sense. This is just one article. There literally give laptops to all the students and then allow they students to have full access.

Most of there IT department is also run by students.

Harbinger01173430 ,

Good! Teach them useless pirate OS things so they don't take away my job! /S

TCB13 ,
@TCB13@lemmy.world avatar

Or that :P

clickyello ,

uninteresting disingenuous troll

oatscoop ,
@oatscoop@midwest.social avatar

You know it's bad when you recognize the user name.

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