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neatchee ,

As a casual Linux user this confirms exactly what I always thought about Arch: there are significant benefits that I would appreciate but I cannot afford the time and energy investment.

If I didn't have a job, I would absolutely make it happen. But in the limited time available to me I just have too many other things I'd rather be doing

redcalcium ,

Then just use endeavour os. It's basically Arch but with a preset configuration already decided for you.

Shareni ,

Installing Arch is the least of its issues, and endeavour doesn't help you with anything else.

aleph ,
@aleph@lemm.ee avatar

Disagree, actually. The Endeavour defaults are really good and they have a really helpful, newbie-friendly forum.

Plus I have personally found the stereotype of Arch being difficult to maintain to not be true at all. I just installed the linux-lts kernel package and setup btrfs-assistant for system restore and it's been quite low-maintenance. I had way more issues with Fedora, come to think of it.

Shareni ,

Yeah, the defaults are pretty good, that's why I used it the longest out of arch and derivatives.

Btrfs does help out a lot, but the last time I installed derivatives, only garuda defaulted to it. Endeavour without it wasn't fun at all.

That really depends on a lot of factors. I've used Arch on multiple devices and had it freeze, crash, fail to boot, and had a bunch of other minor issues. It's usually something that I could fix in a few minutes, except for like that bad GRUB release.

One day I remembered that I previously used mint for 2 years and it never froze, crashed, or had any sort of issue. So now I'm on MX and just use nix to install bleeding edge packages I need. Maybe I don't have the newest DE, but I know it won't break randomly, just possibly once every ~2 years after a major release upgrade.

Yeah, Fedora was a massive pain for me as well. But I installed it as a friend's first distro, and it's been working just fine. Although I think it might've been even better to use RHEL/MX instead.

penquin ,

I use endeavouros. It's great after you set it up. It doesn't really give much help. It's still barebones almost like arch. I even had to install bluez on KDE to get my Bluetooth working. Best thing about it is the installer. In case things go south, you can easily reinstall. And now that arch the install script, it shouldn't be an issue.

Petter1 ,

Just install arch using archinstall (cli app to install arch automatically) and after that use yay instead of pacman

Don’t know how that needs more time than any other OS to be honest.

neatchee ,

If it's that simple to solve every time-sink mentioned in the OP, why isn't that available by default? Or why isn't there a distro flavor that is just that?

Petter1 , (edited )

I don’t know how much EOS is helping with the drivers that don’t come with kernel or need proprietary firmware files, but you can easily get them from AUR.
Most difficult part is installing yay from AUR because you don’t have yay yet to install yay vom AUR using yay, lol.

With my answer prior I wanted to tell, that you do not have to spend a lot of time installing arch if you use archinstall (it is ready to use in the archISO)

neatchee ,

Gotcha. That makes sense

Anticorp , (edited )

If it's that simple to solve every time-sink mentioned in the OP, why isn't that available by default?

Because a lot of people like setting everything up themselves and having full control over everything they install.

Or why isn't there a distro flavor that is just that?

There is, Manjaro or EOS.

neatchee ,

Then why wouldn't I just install manjaro?

Anticorp ,

See the first point.

neatchee ,

So then I'm still exactly correct about my assessment of Arch? That is too much of a time investment for me and the closest I will want to get is manjaro?

Anticorp , (edited )

I love Arch, but I'm an old school nerd who likes fiddling with my computer. If you're the type of person who just wants your shit to work with minimal fuss, then you're probably right that Arch isn't the right distro for you. Someone else said that Manjaro has actually migrated pretty far from Arch over the years, so that may not be right for you either now. If you want to try Arch, but don't want to spend time setting it up then it sounds like EOS is probably a good place to start, but I'm not familiar with EOS at all. That will probably still require some additional configuration for anything special you have going on like custom sound cards, or old printers. I've been using Pop_OS on my gaming desktop for a few years now and it's a really hands-off OS that brings a lot of the cool parts of Linux without requiring much fuss or customization. It is a port of Ubuntu though, so if you want an Arch experience then EOS is the way, or Manjaro for a neutered Arch experience but a little less hands-on. I don't actually have any first-hand experience with Manjaro or EOS though, I've only read about them. If you have a few hours to try them out then you might end up finding a new OS that improves your digital life. Some other people might be able to give you more information, or you can just go for it! Hopefully that helps a little. Sorry I don't have all the answers.

Edit EOS is short for EndeavourOS , so you don't get lost looking at other stuff with the same acronym

octopus_ink , (edited )

I can't tell if you really want to have an argument about Arch or are sincerely curious.

Arch expects you to be pretty involved in deciding what runs on your system and maintaining it. That may or may not be for you. After learning how to use it, I found it really wasn't particularly bad. Having said that, my years spent with Arch were years ago - I've been on derivatives since because I don't really want/need the level of control provided by installing Arch.

If you don't want such a steep learning curve and are OK with some choices being made for you, maybe you want Manjaro, but given your comments so far, I'm not sure whether any Arch derivative is a good choice for you.

Maybe it's just not how you like to do things. Even Manjaro says "hey check our weekly update thread" before you update, to see if you might need to intervene at update time, though IME you rarely do. (Ran Manjaro without a reinstall for years on one laptop.)

Currently I use EOS, and as the other post has said it kinda splits the difference. I had to do a little more setup for myself after an EOS install than a Manjaro install, and maintaining it is closer to maintaining vanilla arch, but I don't consider it a timesink whatsoever. It will be until you know what you are doing.

I guess I take a little umbridge to your use of "timesink" as some kind of pejorative. Everything is a timesink until you know what you are doing with it, and less so when you do.

If you are curious, try them. If you are going to get upset and say they are trash the first time you need some sort of manual intervention, then probably it's better for you to try/stay on some other distro, but it doesn't happen often, and it's usually easy (if you aren't afraid of a wiki and the terminal) when it does.

If you want an argument, I'm not your guy, I'm just trying to answer the questions you seemed to be posing.

neatchee ,

I'm genuinely not looking for an argument. My original comment was "yup, this isn't for me, because it's too much time/effort". It only became an argument of sorts when person after person came in to try to tell me why I was wrong for feeling that way?

Like, I get it. There are different variants and options and arch is mostly for people who want to tinker.

But my original comment was literally just "well, this post confirms what I suspected: arch probably isn't for me because I don't have the time". I didn't intend to be pejorative with the term 'timesink'. Just too much for me. But I'll admit I probably got a bit defensive after being told I was wrong for xyz reason by so many people on a matter of personal priorities

octopus_ink ,

Fair enough, I see your point! :)

hayk OP ,

totally understand it. it took me about a full day to setup everything the way i liked (i'm also quite picky when it comes to usability), but honestly the next time i do it, i can probably do it in a couple of hours, since i now know all the ins and outs.

neatchee ,

I'd be interested to hear from someone like you on their "one month later" experience re: upkeep and compatibility

hayk OP ,

This has been some time ago. Because of the apps I mentioned I had to transit after a week of usage. But in that week, it was kinda nice. I don’t think from the upkeep standpoint it’s too different from other distros. Like I said, the main hard-to-overcome issues come from hardware support, often due to vendors unwilling to release drivers for Linux. But most of the major vendors (intel, amd, nvidia, etc.) have decent linux support nowadays, even not considering the myriad of open-source drivers.

I was also genuinely surprised with how well DEs nowadays support touchpads, and how customizable the gestures can be. That being said, ofc like I said, some of the apps do not release Wayland support (mainly the electron-based ones).

In short, lots of things are a bit more complicated than on Mac or Windows, but a lot of other things are much more straightforward and customizable.

Anticorp ,

Arch is for people who want to fiddle around with computers during their free time.

Source: was one of those people for a long time and still am occasionally. I use Arch on an old laptop and it's pretty awesome. But I use Pop on my gaming desktop because it's stupid simple.

mub ,

That's what EndeavourOS is for. Essentially it is just Arch with a fancy install, plus some minor tweaks and packages you'd probably install in Arch anyway.

The AUR and the wiki is what makes iArch so good. All other Linux distros rely on good forums and public guides, which means you need to be on Ubuntu or Debian for there to be enough content out there to help you if you get stuck. But with Arch most stuff is answered by the wiki or with a package from the AUR. Also the community is generally very helpful and direct in forums and Reddit posts making finding solutions much easier, in my experience, than other distros.

Anyway, I love Arch.

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