Laptop companies: which one?

Hello fellows,

I'm currently looking in 13-14" laptops with no immediate needs for one but just because it's exciting. I love my Dell XPS but I feel I should support companies with which I share more common views. I could make the effort to go a with a less attractive look (especially for bezels) but I don't want to go wrong with hardware so what are your thoughts on Framework, Starlab, Purism, and System76? I'll be running Arch and I tend to have a preference for Framework for now.

Do you have feedback (positive and negative) to share on any of these companies?

Thanks for the knowledge you'll bring me. That'll be extremely useful when time comes to go with a new machine.

Update 1: Still wonderful to be part of such a great community. Thanks for all the great feedback (looking for more :) ).
So far everyone is standing behind Framework. Anyone with a less positive experience or who would like to speak for the other companies?

Update 2: Thank you fellows for the time you've spent to share your honest feedback! I didn't want to influence your inputs but you all confirmed the Framework picture I had in mind. It's a piece of mind to read real world experience so thanks again. I was surprised to not see the system76 community speaks louder. Anyway, when time comes I will (virtually) push Framework shop's door.

eshep ,
@eshep@social.trom.tf avatar

@wwwgem I've been extremely pleased with @tuxedocomputers in both product quality and support. Next laptop will assuredly be another from them.

art ,
@art@lemmy.world avatar

I always recommend older (2-3 years behind) thinkpads and Dell latitudes. Most people don't need latest and greatest, far more bang for you buck, and they're relatively easy to repair.

Plus, it doesn't hurt to keep a perfectly good machine out of a landfill.

mattyroses ,
@mattyroses@lemmygrad.ml avatar

I haven't loved a laptop like my 13 inch Framework since my Mac in 2004.

You can run Pop OS on it if you.like.

maness300 ,

I would try to avoid any kind of brand-loyalty.

Find something that meets your specifications and try it out for yourself. If it works, keep it. If it doesn't, return it.

Just about every retailer has guaranteed returns for 30 days on computers.

Check out https://old.reddit.com/r/LaptopDeals/ daily until you find something that meets your needs and budget.

wwwgem OP ,
@wwwgem@lemmy.ml avatar

Thanks. That does not not really address my question but I certainly share your view as to not be married to a brand. My personal history and this post question are actually going that route.

refreeze ,
@refreeze@lemmy.world avatar

Framework. I've run Debian, Fedora and for a while now NixOS, all of which have worked flawlessly.

I did have to replace the heatsink/fan part on mine because the fan bearing started clicking, but I'm sure that was just a first generation product issue (I was one of the first batches). I was glad to be able to do the replacement myself at relatively low cost and the process couldn't have been easier (took about 30 minutes).

My previous machine was a 2013-ish ThinkPad X series and the Framework absolutely blows it out of the water. I'm looking forward to upgrading mine to a Ryzen motherboard sometime in the not so distant future.

wwwgem OP ,
@wwwgem@lemmy.ml avatar

Wonderful to hear! Thanks for bringing one more vote to Framework :)

maness300 ,

I'd be careful about buying 'niche' brands like framework and system76.

You're going to be paying more for inferior hardware, and a lot of the people on these forums don't really understand this.

Make sure you're getting it because you want it, not because someone else wants it for you.

wwwgem OP , (edited )
@wwwgem@lemmy.ml avatar

Influence is a curse in today's world. I've made this final selection of brands based on personal choice and for reasons exposed in this post. But it's all personal so you may disagree with some/all candidates and that's perfectly fine. I've posted here to actually collect as much opinions as possible so thanks for sharing yours.

Companies always find a way to justify for higher price to sell you not that good hardware or to overprice their stuff for non sense reasons. As anyone else (except fan boys of any given brand) I'm running away from that. In my personal views, companies on this list have reasonable offers considering their history, clients pool, philosophy...

Framework is maybe the best deal here because it has good price and all parts of their machines are replaceable. And again, prices for the parts are fair. So in the long run, users may be winners if the company doesn't crash. If it does then it won't be worth than having bought from another company. With all the options to build the laptop you want for your needs it really make me feel like customizing my Linux system but from a hardware standpoint. It's a big plus for me to pay only for what I want/need and with them you can go even further by physically positioning your ports on the fly. That's an unseen degree of freedom and it has real world applications.

OsrsNeedsF2P ,

Framework prices aren't cheap unless you really fudge the numbers. That said, it will still be my next laptop, because I'm fairly confident it will be cheaper long-term

wwwgem OP , (edited )
@wwwgem@lemmy.ml avatar

I agree it's clearly a win in the long run. Also their prices are not cheap but fair, even though you'd pay ~$100 less than an XPS for the exact same specs (but a higher res display and webcam with Framework).

jackpot ,
@jackpot@lemmy.ml avatar

framework are low in numbers, id check out tuxedo for linux laptops

nickiam2 ,

I've had a framework for 2 years now. It's run fedora, manjaro (arch based) and Debian with no major issues. Manjaro had some problems with KDE and the high DPI screen. Sometimes the scaling was inconsistent between apps. Fedora just works.

Only hardware issue is the battery life is just not that great. And the trackpad doesn't always work property, but I think that was a first generation issue that's been resolved since.

wwwgem OP ,
@wwwgem@lemmy.ml avatar

Thank you for taking time to share this detailed feedback. Very useful!

Chinzon ,
@Chinzon@beehaw.org avatar

I'm going to add my +1 for framework, I got the batch 5 original framework 13 with pop os on it and a windows 10 copy on a 250gb expansion card. Its been my main work and play laptop and I enen replaced the main chassis after it got smashed (long story) involving the sidewalk. Anyway I love what framework is doing and the decision has arguably already paid off within these last two years.

wwwgem OP ,
@wwwgem@lemmy.ml avatar

Don't know if you plan to use another Arch-based distro on this laptop in the future but I came across this page which has some tips to adjust the Framework 13 including one that may be related to what you mention. They recommend to use 1,5 scaling factor. More details can be found here.

TheAnonymouseJoker , (edited )
@TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml avatar

Mainstream? Avoid anything other than Lenovo ThinkPads. Rather than trying to buy the freshest budget model, try for 1-2 generations old T serie flagship, or even L serie. Search <modelname> PSREF and check if a WWAN M.2 slot is available, so you can buy a $30 2230/2242 SSD for Windows, and make your machine have both Linux and Windows. ThinkPads have the best aftersales support and third party parts support, with open schematics and warranty that allows user tinkering.

Other boutique Linux catering brand options are already discussed so pointless.

CrabAndBroom ,

Yeah Lenovo have always been really good for me with Linux. I think if I had the money I'd still go either Framework or System76, but my current laptop is just a mid-range Lenovo Ideapad and it seems to run any Linux thing I chuck at it quite happily.

TheAnonymouseJoker ,
@TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml avatar

You will not have troubles with Lenovo aftersales or parts support, that is the greatest benefit I think. It means basically you can hack through and run a laptop down to the ground.

peanutbutter_gas ,

I have a framework laptop and endeavour os with gnome de. I've had no problems with it. I mainly use it for dev work and web browsing. I enabled gnome muli-gesture (basically the same gestures on a Mac trackpad). I've had no problems with that either.

I'd recommend it.

wwwgem OP ,
@wwwgem@lemmy.ml avatar

Thanks for sharing this feedback. One more point for Framework :)

Petter1 ,

Since it was not mentioned yet: https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/en

If I would not get so many old computing devices that fulfill my needs (I don’t game on PC/Linux) I guess I’d buy one of those. I live in Switzerland and having a german company for support would be superior to me. And I heard that build quality should be great 😇
😂I guess I’d really like to have one, but as I said, for my needs, my macbookpro5,3 running arch does the job.

superbirra ,

can confirm that tuxedo is great if you are in Europe. It has been my daily driver for 3 years with debian sid and it's great!

alfenstein ,

I've had the TUXEDO Pulse 15 from tuxedo computers for about 2 years and it's great.

Petter1 ,

Nice to hear 😄

MajorHavoc , (edited )

Weirdly, my (five year old) Microsoft Surface runs Ubuntu perfectly. (Edit to clarify, after some initial hassle.)

I'm eying a Framework 16 next.

Edit: To clarify, I would not recommend purchasing a Microsoft Surface to put Linux on it. As others have pointed out, it's not the smoothest setup experience.

If anyone already has a Surface and wants to extend it's life with Linux, that I recommend wholeheartedly. With the disclaimer that there was some weird nerdy deep-dive extra setup needed.

krash ,

Certain surface models run linux fine, but I wouldn't recommended it as a linux laptop as it requires solving several issues before you get a working computer.

MajorHavoc ,

That is a terrific point!

dingus ,

I have a 6 year old Dell laptop and was hoping Linux would make it snappier. Ubuntu ran the best on it of the distros I tried, but it still had lag issues that I didn't experience in Windows. I was able to to troubleshoot some other issues I had to get everything running mostly pretty good, but not that one.

I feel like if you want to go the laptop route, it makes a bit more sense to buy something officially supported.

MajorHavoc ,

I feel like if you want to go the laptop route, it makes a bit more sense to buy something officially supported.

Agreed! I've had very similar experiences with trying to run Linux on Laptops.

With my Surface Go, I was desperate to get it back into a useable state, and I had a surprisinly easy time. Largely thanks to the Linux on Surface Go hobbyists I found guidance from.

But when buying a new laptop, I would one of the many better options in this thread, every time.

Revan343 ,

I'm a fan of refurbished ThinkPads myself, but that is mostly for money reasons. If I had money to blow, I would probably also buy a Framework

wwwgem OP ,
@wwwgem@lemmy.ml avatar

Framework also has an outlet, just in case you want to take a look ;)

FartsWithAnAccent ,
@FartsWithAnAccent@lemmy.world avatar

Framework

wwwgem OP ,
@wwwgem@lemmy.ml avatar

Any more details to share?

FartsWithAnAccent ,
@FartsWithAnAccent@lemmy.world avatar

My favorite drink is water.

FartsWithAnAccent ,
@FartsWithAnAccent@lemmy.world avatar

Also, I have heard that Linux runs pretty well on them and they are upgradeable.

wwwgem OP ,
@wwwgem@lemmy.ml avatar

I agree. Have you ever owned one?

wewbull ,

His accent is Lithuanian.

FartsWithAnAccent , (edited )
@FartsWithAnAccent@lemmy.world avatar

True: Only when I eat Lithuanian food though.

JoeyJoeJoeJr , (edited )

I currently have a System76 laptop, and sincerely regret my purchase. When I purchased it, the Framework was not out yet - I wanted to support a company that supports right-to-repair, and figured since they controlled the hardware, firmware, and software (Pop!_OS), it would be a good, stable experience. It has not been, and support has generally been poor. I know other people have had better experiences than I have, but personally, I won't be buying from them again.

I haven't personally used Purism, but former co-workers spoke really poorly of them. They were trying to buy a big batch for work, and said the build quality was awful. Additionally: https://youtu.be/wKegmu0V75s

wwwgem OP ,
@wwwgem@lemmy.ml avatar

Thanks very much for this important feedback. Framework is definitely taking the lead in responses to this post.

cevn ,

I have one problem with my s76, the usb c port rly sucks. Other than that the laptop runs very well but something so simple shouldnt be an issue imo there are some build quality issues going on..

JoeyJoeJoeJr ,

My usb-c ports can be a little touchy, too. The SD card slot is also really bad - the card has to be positioned perfectly to slide in, or it jams. I'm also upset that the usb-c port can only be used for charging after a full boot. It cannot be used to perform firmware updates, or even to do a ram test. This means day-to-day, usb-c can be used, but I have to keep track of the barrel charger, just in case. This, of course, was not specified on the product details page (nor, I think, that only one of the two usb-c ports could be used for charging - it's possible I overlooked that, but still frustrating on an expensive laptop that lists usb-c charging as a feature).

cevn ,

Dang, I did not even realize that about the usb c port only being usable after a full boot, since I just got it. I need to find out where I put that barrel charger. Haven’t tested the sd card slot yet but will try and report back.

JoeyJoeJoeJr ,

You might get lucky. Based on https://support.system76.com/articles/system-firmware/, it doesn't seem to be all models. Note however that the list is out-of-date; my galp5 is not listed, but does not work. Fortunately, I found this out doing a RAM check, and not a firmware upgrade.

dingus ,

That's actually a bit disappointing to hear. I have always been interested in system76 since their existence, but I've never actually purchased anything from them. Was about to impulse buy a desktop PC from them, but ultimately decided against it because it wasn't really what I needed.

teawrecks ,

I had a System76 10 years ago. The customer service was excellent (several months after receiving my laptop, they sent me a replacement keyboard, because they didn't like the one it shipped with). The build quality was meh, it was a plastic body and didn't hold up well to wear and tear, but it's in my closet and still works. I haven't tried their aluminum bodies.

I now have a Framework. It arrived with trackpad issues, and one of the HDMI adapters didn't work at all. They shipped me replacements for both at no cost to me (except time). It's been nice knowing that any other issues I do have can be replaced piecewise. Also I like that the webcam/mic have physical kill switches.

wwwgem OP ,
@wwwgem@lemmy.ml avatar

Very nice to read this feedback. I'm very sold to Framework after all the great things posted here. An impeccable customer support like the one you describe means a lot about a company.

crazyminner ,

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