It’s quite common knowledge, Microsoft does horrible operating systems but great dev tools. Visual Studio (not vscode) was amazing to develop software.
And thanks god we don’t have to deal with Eclipse anymore.
The real question would be why the open source community cannot create a better dev tool that’s not outmatched by a glorified text editor.
I hate vscode. I hate that gitlab emulated that shit in its webIDE. I code all day and I’m astonished people have pleasant thoughts about it as I sit and wait for that ugly crud to load.
“Better than eclipse” isn’t the same as “good”
Free software made a better editor in the '80s. Go learn.
No it’s not that steaming shite vi nor its feotid ilk.
I use neovim for the vast majority of the programming I do but I do still have VSCode installed. Maybe I should just delete it? I opened it after I saw this post and there was a whole bunch of extension updates just sitting there.
Kinda wish GNOME builder was a bit better at being a general purpose editor. That’s just because I’m a bit of a GNOME/GTK pervert though and I would love to use a sexy looking app for dev work.
And one tought: i do despise microsoft and i dont care if any of its products seems good. They re there to infiltrate and destroy, they have always been from msdos times, and rest assured thats what they will do also with vscode/codium.
Do not fall into this trick, make good products better, dont piggy back on who showed to stick it in your rear end again and again over time.
Not me, i use and like a lot QtCreator… Granted, i work with C/C++ so… But its Open Source, cross-platform, has tons of integeations with analyzers debuggers and various tools.
Kdevelop never triggered my bells and CodeBlocks just doesnt feels right for me, but thats me.
For everyrhing else vim or kate depending on how i feel.
I feel like microsoft’s gameplan is less “everyone must use windows” these days and more “we want to gatekeep tech on as many levels as possible”. I’m wary of relying on anything they put out. I think we’ve all recently seen what big tech companies do when they decide its time to monetize more aggressively.
Right now helix is pretty good for what I do with it.
Here, fixed it for you so the analogies to the apple example are not completely wrong:
“Cars should have more seatbelts!” “Yet you buy from brand X who refuses to provide belts and lobbies against belts, you could buy Y instead!”
“We should improve our society. (Said by a rich provileged person)” “Yet you don’t push back against horrible practices, just talk a bit and otherwise enjoy your privilege.”
I like messing around with my system, using foss software and all, but when it comes to programming, I just want it to work without me having to do extra steps… VSCode works without too many extra steps and it doesn’t require a masters in vim to use… I can live with microsoft knowing that I’m learning html and C#
My bigger problem is many swear on FLOSS, but using Apple is OK. Go to a FLOSS conference and there are Macs everywhere.
It’s undeniable that Microsoft has had positive influences on the opensource world with language servers, debug adapter protocol, an inbrowser editor that is seemingly embedded in any website with a code editor, cross-platform C# (maybe that’s a curse though, I dunno), linux contributions, and probably more I’m not aware of. Apple… I dunno. Vendor lock-in and more electronic trash?
I think Apple is supposedly meant to be more respectful of privacy, which to be fair I haven’t heard of much scandal around user data from apple, they have other issues though
I always find this such an odd concept. When you look at their privacy policy, you release they track a LOT about you.
They just try to make it sound fancy “we don’t use third party info about you”. No, they don’t need to since they get enough to track you from their own devices. And they “segment you into groups”, but you still tracked, they still have a huge profile about you. Doesn’t change that.
Info Apple tracks about you:
Account Information: Your name, address, age, gender, and devices registered to your Apple ID account. Information such as your first name in your Apple ID registration page or salutation in your Apple ID account may be used to derive your gender.
Device Information: Your keyboard language settings, device type, OS version, and connection type.
The music, movies, books, TV shows, and apps you download, as well as any in-app purchases and subscriptions.
The topics and categories of the stories you read and the publications you follow, subscribe to, or turn on notifications from.
Apple isn’t okay. Apple is forced onto developers. The general population using Apple products requires developers to use Macs. And, last time I checked, it’s a lot easier carrying around one laptop than two. It also doesn’t hurt that Apple products aren’t exactly the quality of off-brand Chinese laptops.
I hope EU slaps Apple hard for abusing their market position in this. I’ve seen it happen in several companies I’ve worked in. Developers prefer Linux, but it’s the only machine you can build for all target platforms, so… macbooks it is.
Plenty of developers prefer Macs to anything else.
Of course. They are pretty great battery wise. UX and OS is however inconsistent, buggy and frustrating. I had expected “annoying design decisions”, but not wrong and buggy ones.
The general population using Apple products requires developers to use Macs
They are 20% of the laptop/desktop owners? 25%? A dev is most likely going to be writing backend software to run on a linux platform on some server somewhere or write a web application (for the browser or electron). How many devs are actually going to be writing mac-native applications?
I mean if it’s the choice between Fisher-Price Linux in a decently good looking package or Windows in whatever (maybe entirely useless spec) machine your employer offers, it’s probably better to get the Mac for a lot of people.
I guess it’s mostly because Mac and Windows are just easier to run for most organizations, and IME as someone who’s never worked at a software company, IT teams don’t have any interest in admin’ing Linux for a small handful of users.
Probably those IT teams are just ignorant. Kerberos has been around since 1988. Fat and thin clients ran on Unix back in the 80s, there Endpoint Protection Platforms (EPP) exist for for linux and so do Endpoint Detection and Response (EDR), opensource Preboot eXecution Environments (PXE) have existed since at least 1984 so you can install linux on a bunch of devices in your LAN with the configuration you want, it’s possible to setup update policies and a bunch of other things if you like as they can be grabbed from a server, you have remote desktop solutions, and so on and so forth.
The only real thing missing IINM is Mobile Device Management (MDM) where a user can get a mobile device delivered to them, they login and enter a URL + credentials into their MDM solution, and the device pulls configuration information from a remote server to setup and manage the device. The device never has to enter the premises of the enterprise and employees can be anywhere in the world and be provisioned. There are workarounds, but nothing enterprisey has been made yet, which is probably due to the lack of Linux at work. A chicken and egg problem.
But well… you might be right. Non-linux sysadmins probably think it’s not possible and just hand out windows or mac.
But well… you might be right. Non-linux sysadmins probably think it’s not possible and just hand out windows or mac.
I mean even if you were totally knowledgeable about it (Imo, as a non-IT person) it seems like it’s a hard sell in terms of effort/value unless it’s totally necessary esp if there’s an established user base for Mac/windows.
Sure it’s cross platform, but it lacks feature parity with the Windows version. And the development experience is lacking on Linux. It’s not even that they haven’t brought everything over, it’s that they’ve even removed features, like hot-reload, from Linux.
Do you think Microsoft removed features from their language because they hate Linux? Or do you think maybe the way syscalls and the filesystem work are different in Linux and that makes hot reload a bit of an engineering problem?
We can never know, but I’m guessing Microsoft didn’t port their language to Linux just to shoot themselves in the foot. On the other hand, it is Microsoft.
Apple does have some open source contributions. One example is CUPS, which was made by Apple and is now used by most modern Linux distros for managing printers. If you want more examples you’ll have to ask someone who actually likes Apple, I’m sure they can think of more.
Not everything Apple is bad but iMessage is an active annoyance and so is their walled garden approach. It’s a bit like looking at someone you hate and talking about how that one time they brought a pie to the pot luck at work.
There’s also Webkit, which a few foss browsers (ie gnome web, and whatever kde’s browser is called) use instead of Chromium or Gecko, and Swift, a c++ based language that I haven’t personally seen used much outside of iOS development.
CUPS was made in 1997, and was quickly used in Linux. Apple in 2002 started using CUPS, and in 2007 purchased CUPS.
It was originally made by Easy Software Products. As it was widely used in Linux before Apple started using it, I’m pretty sure it was always open source (their other major release was HTMLDOC which is also open source). Being open source before the purchase meant Apple had to keep it open source (but could guide where the official releases would aim).
I don’t use VSCode for the exact reason. I used VSCodium but switched to Neovim. I see this problem more with GitHub (also owned by Microsoft). I was not able to get off GitHub yet, but I’m planning to switch to Codeberg probably. I heard that GitLab is also closed source?
Gitlab is open source, but some features are only available in their Enterprise Edition. As the name suggests, unless you are looking for an alternative for a large company, the open source “Community” Edition is enough for all your needs.
I am also facing the same issue with Github and switching to codeberg. My first hurdle is clouflare pages not sourcing codeberg for website source, only giving options for github and gitlab
vim and neovim actually hold a pretty significant marketshare on Linux. a lot of developers use MacOS or Windows, so what does it matter if one more small thing is proprietary? It obviously does matter, but people don’t think of it that way.
Your daily reminder that VSCode is shit not because of telemetry (take your time foil hat off for one second and hear me out and I say that jokingly with love) but because the extension marketplace is not allowed to be accessed by third party tools (INCLUDING CODIUM) and even then many of the extensions are proprietary, closed source. You’re not even allowed to distribute compiled VSIX files. It’s disgusting. Reading about the troubles gitpod faced that led to the (now) Eclipse Marketplace (idk the name, but it’s for VS Code plugins, don’t be tricked, it’s just owned by Eclipse foundation) is disheartening.
Yeah, there is an open marketplace. It’s the one Codium uses by default. The problem is there’s no way for the controllers to just mirror everything because of the licenses. Also some of the extensions don’t work with Codium even if you download manually from the website because of bullshit like tweaking the name or whatever.