Floorp, a Firefox Fork with an awful name, has moved some components inside a private submodule. ( github.com )

See also https://forum.endeavouros.com/t/floorp-going-closed-source/52783

Edit: They claim they will make that part open source too, eventually, and it is due to behavior of another browser: https://github.com/Floorp-Projects/Floorp-core/issues/62

Edit 2: They just open sourced the private repository 7 minutes ago, 2024-03-24T12:39Z

catsup ,
@catsup@lemmy.one avatar

Bro, imagine putting "Floorp Developer" in your CV 💀

_MusicJunkie ,

No worse than all the tech startup names tbh.

flumph ,
@flumph@programming.dev avatar

This blog from the maintainer makes it clear they have no interest in open source other than to advertise their own skills

Preparing for a New Beginning for Floorp

intensely_human ,

Well that’s kind of a shitty thing to say about someone without backing it up with some specifics.

What specific passage from that blog post makes you think that?

flumph ,
@flumph@programming.dev avatar

The purpose is to learn how to publish code that cannot be used for forking as open source.

.

I have to obligate the folks to choose whether they want to pay me or help me code.

.

....it was not beneficial to me.

.

...new to gaining good visibility through open source,

Atemu ,
@Atemu@lemmy.ml avatar

I'll take "didn't get the point of FOSS" for $3.14.

What the heck.

octopus_ink ,

Feels like what happened to Emby to me.

(hugs Jellyfin)

politicalcustard ,
@politicalcustard@beehaw.org avatar

Thanks for the edit and link to discussion, I am a FireDragon (Floorp fork) user and it seems like this issue is in hand and I'm not going to be concerned for the moment.

nix ,
@nix@merv.news avatar

What are some things you like about FireDragon that make you use it over others?

politicalcustard ,
@politicalcustard@beehaw.org avatar

I use Garuda Linux and FireDragon is maintained by the same people so it's been customised to have the same look. FireDragon was previously a fork of Librewolf (another fork of Firefox I have always liked), so I just switched over to FireDragon to try it out. I'd also used Floorp in the past and really liked that, so to have FireDragon and Floorp become one was really nice. FireDragon is nifty and has the privacy focus that LibreFox has. Garuda Linux is also a really nice distro and a lot of care and effort has gone into it - it also has a Plasma version for gamers... which is lovely for me. It's late and this is a dreadfully rambling answer... but hopefully you get the idea (roughly!) 😅

nix ,
@nix@merv.news avatar

Does Plasma make games run better somehow? What makes the Plasma version of Garuda “for gamers”?

politicalcustard ,
@politicalcustard@beehaw.org avatar

The main thing is that Plasma 6 comes with some HDR support and it is possible to have it in some games now as well as in some apps like mpv that also have HDR support.

As for the Garuda Gamer version of the distro, it comes with a bunch of gaming stuff preinstalled and a Garuda Gamer app which makes it really easy to install gaming related apps, emulators, and hardware support for controllers, rgb, and all that kind of thing. It's just all handled very well and would make a nice distro to recommend to gamers who might want to make a switch to Linux from Windows, mainly because things are made so easy - which is nice for an Arch based distro because you have access to yay without it being overly complicated.

i_am_not_a_robot ,

This sounds like immature project drama. I've seen it before where there's a large, professionally maintained product and people make forks to add small changes and then different forks start fighting with each other over because it's their features and they don't want other forks to incorporate them. You should probably just avoid Floorp if possible.

heartfelthumburger ,
@heartfelthumburger@sopuli.xyz avatar

eli5?

Aatube OP ,
@Aatube@kbin.melroy.org avatar

Some time ago, a bunch of really smart people wanted to be able to modify software, so it can never be broken since they can fix it. Thus began open source, which is having a piece of software tell everybody exactly how to make it. Meanwhile, many companies don't want people to modify their software, usually because they don't want people easily competing with them and bankrupting them due to creating a better modification. Such software that isn't open source is termed "proprietary".

Floorp was one of these open source softwares. Some ambitious Japanese people modified Firefox, added some features and customizations, and named it "Floorp".

Recently, these people decided, for whatever reason, to stop the public from being able to access some of the materials and configurations for making Floorp. They did this by creating a new "warehouse" to store these materials, sealing off the access to it, and replacing the original location of the now proprietary materials with a note that tells you the location of the warehouse you can't get in.

(Hopefully that wasn't confusing...)

Bitrot ,
@Bitrot@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

It’s an open source browser based on Firefox with additional features and configuration tweaks.

Except they recently made part of it proprietary and hid the source code for that, so most other people cannot actually build the same one.

They claim they will make that part open source too, eventually, and it is due to behavior of another browser: https://github.com/Floorp-Projects/Floorp-core/issues/62

Aatube OP ,
@Aatube@kbin.melroy.org avatar

Huh, that's very valuable context.

sabreW4K3 ,
@sabreW4K3@lazysoci.al avatar

Besides Tor, I'm yet to see a Firefox fork that makes sense

smileyhead ,

Even LibreWolf, which is just a Firefox with different configuration by default, I think should be just config files.

I really want to see browsers saving configurations and data in a simple file formats, like QuteBrowser do.

Aatube OP ,
@Aatube@kbin.melroy.org avatar

You may be looking for Betterfox.

itsmect ,
@itsmect@monero.town avatar

You cant remove pocket and telemetry without recompiling. That's why its not just a config file.

Ephera ,

In Firefox, you can use the user.js file to create any overrides you want.

Aatube OP ,
@Aatube@kbin.melroy.org avatar

Personally I use Waterfox because of its built-in theme preferences, e.g. auto-hiding the tab bar and sidebar headers.

CaptObvious ,

Is Waterfox still owned by the advertising company?

Aatube OP ,
@Aatube@kbin.melroy.org avatar

No, (Captain Obvious,) and I never really got the fuss around that in the first place.

DolphinMath ,

Huh, TIL.

https://www.waterfox.net/blog/a-new-chapter-for-waterfox/

Kissaki ,
@Kissaki@beehaw.org avatar

The relevant, 2023-07-03:

I am happy to say that Waterfox is independent again.

CaptObvious ,

You don’t understand why an ad company owning a “privacy focused” browser is a problem?

Aatube OP ,
@Aatube@kbin.melroy.org avatar

I can check the commits.

off_brand_ ,

Do you? Genuinely, not trying to snark. I see this point lots, but Im skeptical that people actually do.

As a dev, I read plenty of commits, and the idea of voluntarily prodding through commits on a FOSS project is just not happening. I'd rather just trust the dev, and the community to pick through the code in my place. The obvious issue being, what if everyone also does that.

Aatube OP ,
@Aatube@kbin.melroy.org avatar

In fact, sometimes! Sometimes I check GitHub's difference between tags and open commits with commit summaries too vague on the first page. Yeah, it's pretty much just a basic scan, but since it's open source I don't think they'll be brave enough to do things too nefarious and hidden, which like the bystander effect you've said, I feel like will come to light anyway. Hell, someone somehow managed to find furry porn in Thorium.

DolphinMath ,

Check out Mullvad Browser. It’s created in partnership with the Tor Browser, but optimized to be used for the Clearnet. You don’t need to use Mullvad’s VPN with it either.

Pantherina ,

Librewolf, their devs seem hella inactive but their builds are automated. Tbh I would prefer a working arkenfox more. Made my own softening and install script but its pre-alpha and I will likely rewrite it again in some time.

esaru ,

Icecat, a Firefox fork without Firefox's privacy issues (telemetry).

sabreW4K3 ,
@sabreW4K3@lazysoci.al avatar

Out of curiosity, in which ways are telemetry privacy issues and how does Icecat solve them in a way in which NextDNS doesn't?

esaru ,

By default Firefox collects data and sends it to their server, which Icecat doesn't. I don't want having to use another service like NextDNS to protect me against the application that I want to be able to trust because I'm using it for a lot of personal data.

From the mozilla website itself:

Identification:

When Firefox sends data to us, your IP address is temporarily collected as part of our server logs.

And then the data that I don't want to share with other entities:

Interaction data includes information about your interactions with Firefox such as number of open tabs and windows, number of webpages visited, number and type of installed Firefox Add-ons and session length, as well as Firefox features offered by Mozilla or our partners such as interaction with Firefox search features and search partner referrals.

Technical data includes information about your Firefox version and language, device operating system and hardware configuration, memory, basic information about crashes and errors, outcome of automated processes like updates and safebrowsing.

sabreW4K3 ,
@sabreW4K3@lazysoci.al avatar

Even without NextDNS, what data is it that's being collected that's so bad?

Every website and app sees your IP address and has done since forever. Intersections like number of tabs, number of web pages, installed add-ons are how features are developed and resources assigned.

You can turn off the sponsored links.

Technical information is again, good housekeeping.

Did you ever watch House MD? Remember how he used to say everybody lies and so would look for hard evidence? That's telemetry. They need to know what's happening in order to make the best browser possible, because the alternative is just doing what the people who shout the loudest want and that didn't work out too well for them.

esaru ,

There's certainly a trade-off by not having Telemetry, and I prefer privacy over some "slightly better development". It is not necessary for good development.

Websites collect information, but I expect that in a public space, and also aggregating information across websites isn't so easy. However, I have higher expectations for my web browser. When something is installed on my laptop, it's like my house, and I don't want anything to access my private space without permission.

Even worse, Firefox has it implemented as Opt-Out. Telemetry by default and without asking the user isn't good practice. At the very least, they should give users a choice before enabling it. Yet, they collect everyone's IP address and other information at least once when you start up Firefox for the first time. This doesn't deserve my trust.

I don't want to play a game of 'what do I need to opt-out for privacy' with an entity that I need to trust. Why would I use Firefox if Icecat gives me the level of trust that I need. It's a personal choice.

sabreW4K3 ,
@sabreW4K3@lazysoci.al avatar

To be honest, I find your standpoint immature, naive, ignorant and selfish. But there's clearly forks that cater to your mindset, so enjoy them.

esaru ,

Privacy always comes at a cost. We are all different and have varying preferences based on our experiences and perspectives. Deciding how much privacy one wants to give up for convenience or other benefits is a personal choice. There's no need to judge others for that decision. To each their own.

sabreW4K3 ,
@sabreW4K3@lazysoci.al avatar

Privacy is great and we all make sacrifices to achieve it. But there's privacy and there's malicious paranoia.

Let's look at Mozilla and Firefox. Once upon a time they were doing well, really well in fact, to the point that they toppled a hegemon. They were a breath of fresh air in a formerly Internet Explorer world.

However things didn't last. A new competitor came forward and abused its new monopoly to get skin in the game, but for the most part actually made a better browser.

Mozilla asked its fanbase what it should do and a vocal minority spoke up. Mozilla focused on those things and people left for what had become a better browser.

Mozilla looked at how the competitor improved and realised the value of data driving decisions, they had said data as opt-in and hardly anyone opted in. Though this is something commonly known. Eventually Mozilla, in order to stay competitive, made it opt out and as a result, with tonnes more data and a better understanding, started making changes that improved Firefox and once more made it competitive.

Unfortunately for Mozilla, there are some organizations that abuse telemetry and so the connotations are of a giant privacy nightmare. Mozilla enables users to see all the data that is sent, but connotations are hard to overcome.

Now with all that in mind, Mozilla's the last bastion of freedom. It's in charge of the last non Google or Apple major rendering engine and some of the same people that acknowledge its vitally important, are unwilling to do their part to ensure its survival.

The goal of Mozilla is a free Internet and in order to provide that, they need an important browser. But there are people that refuse to contribute their telemetry, so said rendering engine doesn't register. The browser can't improve, it looks like they're not using the rendering engine and they don't donate. They're essentially just being leeches, but they're protecting their privacy while sacrificing everyone else's.

It's like shooting everyone that walks on your road in order to protect your family.

esaru , (edited )

I appreciate your detailed description of the probable benefits of telemetry. While I acknowledge there are benefits, however, before accepting a given set of telemetry, I would like to know with sources and in exact terms (not just 'improved UI') what enhancements were made to Firefox that couldn't be achieved without telemetry. I want to decide for myself if those features are truly important enough to justify sending my personal data to the developers. Only then can I make an informed decision, and it still wouldn't necessarily mean agreement. It's not paranoia; it's simply refusing telemetry for any reason given.

sabreW4K3 ,
@sabreW4K3@lazysoci.al avatar

I hear and understand you. There's absolutely no way you should just blindly accept Telemetry. But there are companies that deserve your faith until they fuck up. Mozilla is one of them. It's also worth noting that they only keep Telemetry data for 1 year: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/telemetry-clientid#:~:text=Firefox%20collects%20telemetry%20data%20by,interaction%20data%20and%20technical%20data.

Aatube OP ,
@Aatube@kbin.melroy.org avatar

Curious, do you have some extension that makes Firefox support #:~:text?

sabreW4K3 ,
@sabreW4K3@lazysoci.al avatar

Did the link not work for you?

https://lazysoci.al/pictrs/image/2f86a991-a7e9-414f-8e9f-8141c7b8f3a7.jpeg

odium ,

Damn, guess I go back to regular Firefox

octopus_ink ,

[2024-03-23T09:29:01-0400] [ALPM] removed floorp-bin-debug (11.10.5-1)

[2024-03-23T09:29:01-0400] [ALPM] removed floorp-bin (11.11.1-1)

Lemongrab ,

Try Mercery for a boost in performance of about 8-20% dependent on machine: https://thorium.rocks/mercury

Or for better security/privacy try LibreWolf: https://librewolf.net

Normal Firefox has telemetry and poor default settings but is still feature rich if you take the time to config.

DolphinMath ,

My small concern with Librewolf is getting security updates quickly. Cool project though. As I understand, the team has been better about quickly patching security vulnerabilities in recently months too.

drwankingstein ,

awful name

I think you mean a great name

aleph ,
@aleph@lemm.ee avatar

Nah they got it right the first time.

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