[Discussion] How do you feel about age verification on Porn sites? ( lemmings.world )

Porn sites Pornhub, XVideos, and Stripchat face stricter requirements to verify the ages of their users after being officially designated as “Very Large Online Platforms” (VLOPs) under the European Union’s Digital Services Act (DSA).

I personally have mixed feelings, as the information collection could be used to link individuals and profile them. Possibly leading to discrimination if abused.

But I also feel that any random kid shouldn’t be able to just go to these sites and see porn freely.
Ofc, there’s always going to be those who mange to circumvent any protection put in place but it’d be much harder then just clicking a link or typing in the address.

I also feel that parents should actively monitor their kids online activities and step up a Blocklist to pro-actively prevent kids from reaching these sites to begin with.

What are your thoughts on this?

Squid , (edited )

Another reason to pirate

Also if the government do feel the need to “help” parents and the larger social fabric then why not put money into civil dutys classes in schools. Teach kid how to grow into normal adults, the trickle down would be much greater than these half baked ducktape tactics

InEnduringGrowStrong ,
@InEnduringGrowStrong@sh.itjust.works avatar

Yea but a lot might see a boobie, can you image the horror.
Content filtering solutions are imperfect but it’s good enough and easy enough to use at home if you need to.
Worst case, your kid learns to bypass content filtering and sparks a career in IT or something.

Rustmilian OP , (edited )
@Rustmilian@lemmy.world avatar

You literally walk a block in NYC and see titties.
There’s a lot more extreme content out there.

InEnduringGrowStrong ,
@InEnduringGrowStrong@sh.itjust.works avatar

Then just use one of the existing content filtering/ parental control tools for your home network?

I don’t see the benefit of another privacy invasion when there’s already solutions for this exact problem.

Rustmilian OP ,
@Rustmilian@lemmy.world avatar

I already mentioned that in my post.

InEnduringGrowStrong ,
@InEnduringGrowStrong@sh.itjust.works avatar

Then have a nice day, I guess

fruitycoder ,

Sites should empower parents to control that. Have a sign in by default and an option to ask the site to block ips associated with you to be able to sign up for more accounts.

Are there ways around it? Sure. It’s a just a lock to keep honest kids out. If your kid doesn’t feel comfortable about asking about stuff like this or feel like they have to around you, you aren’t going to win, they’ll find it, and it’ll be a blast for them. If you talk about it, at least acknowledge the issues with it, say when it is and isn’t appropriate, etc it’ll do leagues better then all bans and censorship attempts in the world.

ridethisbike ,

The IP thing backfires when you inevitably get assigned a new IP and the guy down the street now can’t look at his porn anymore because the website blocked the IP

fruitycoder ,

True it requires more coordination to be helpful. And tbh I think every household network should be going through and host a Tor relay so shrug but something to the effect of some minimal form of authentication that the person is a consenting adult that is given out at the discretion of the person would be useful for this case.

Not totally sure what the best way to do that is. Keys, cookies, OIDC from trusted party, block chain, DIDs (Decentralized Identifiers), or heuristics like IPs, or digital finger prints.

ridethisbike ,

Oooorrr we could not do all that and let parents do their jobs. How about we empower them to learn how to setup parental controls on their routers and on the kids devices?

fruitycoder ,

It’s not enough in my experience shrug but I agree it should on parents to support it

ICastFist ,
@ICastFist@programming.dev avatar

Let’s be real, teens, especially males, will actively search for porn. Blocklists can be pointless, because even if you can blacklist 160k pornhub clones, they can just join a discord or telegram server instead.

Frankly, I think parents should just make them aware that just like cinema, those videos are for show, not for “trying at home”. Parents should tell them that if they ever expect sex to be like in the porn they consume, they’ll be sorely disappointed. Most of it is faker than reality tv. Oh, it can also make boys get really fucking insecure, especially about their own size.

Microw ,

That’s not a problem in my opinion. Obviously teens are a big demographic for big sites like pornhub. And they will consume porn in one way or another. I would love it if they used more ethical porn platforms, but whatever it is it is.

The issue with these sites has always been that they will blast videos into your face as soon as you open the website, without the usual barrier to register first. And that makes it a problem for any child between 5 and 11 years old who might stumble onto that page because someone is pulling a prank or whatever. The un-natural, violent kind of porn promoted by sites like Pornhub should not be broadcasted into the minds of actually small children.

rbesfe ,

My first exposure to porn was through sprays in TF2. Kids are gonna see this shit regardless of how much you invade everyone else’s privacy

brygphilomena ,

I’m getting flashbacks to Counter Strike. It’s been a long time since I’ve thought of sprays in games.

Gutless2615 ,

Any so called privacy law that enriches and ensures that age verification data brokers make bank is fundamentally and irrevocably broken.

devfuuu ,

Just open another site.

possiblylinux127 ,
@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip avatar

Age verification is silly and can be easily bypassed. What we should do is just block adult content by default. Most content people want to see is not adult oriented anyway. If someone wants that they can do that at home by just turning off the filters.

HMH ,
@HMH@lemmy.ml avatar

The good old “Think of the children” argument again… This is an attack on online privacy, again. I hate it.

It is the parents responsibility to keep their kids safe. We don’t ban knives either just because a child could accidentally get hurt by one. And apart from that the regulations are not even well thought out, they will not stop a determined teenager with a lot of time on their hands.

Facebones ,

Funny how the venn diagram of “it’s the govts job to protect my kids at all costs” and “the govt shouldn’t come near my children with a 10 foot pole because they’re brainwashers” is a perfect circle.

VolunTerry ,
@VolunTerry@monero.town avatar

👍 Yep, it’s sad. I can protect them along with the help of my family, friends and community. If not, I will admit failure and live with the consequences. But it’s up to me to grow up and build skills and learn patience and responsibility, not the job of others.

Parents need to get back to parenting instead of absolving themselves of what they see as a pesky responsibility of raising the children they produce and putting their lives and impressionable minds in the hands of others, then wondering what went wrong 20-some years on and blaming everyone but themselves.

Mango ,

I don’t want any company putting my identity into a database along with my sexual interests. Just consider what’s been done to the gay++ community.

mindbleach ,

But I also feel that any random kid shouldn’t be able to just go to these sites and see porn freely.

At some point, you have to ask - why?

If that’s the alternative to spying on everyone, I’m still opposed to spying on everyone. Unsupervised internet access leading kids to pornography certainly would not be new. It’s not the end of the world.

Just throw your warnings and have a click-through. It’ll be just as effective, much cheaper, and not leave bastard politicians salivating about their social control fetish.

Facebones ,

We have 3rd party verification services already, just use those. 🤷 They’re pretty good at verifying I’m a vet, I’m sure they can confirm that you definitely exist.

I agree with you, gimme back my checkbox, but it’d be better than “give the porn site your ID.”

VolunTerry ,
@VolunTerry@monero.town avatar

Raise thoughtful, moral children. They are going to see porn in our modern society. How they process it has to do a lot with the tools they have to do that. That’s the parents job. Not to pretend a 100% prohibition or firewall can be erected, but to raise resilient children who can thrive and not become irreparably damaged by the things they are exposed to in the world they grow into.

Recognition that they will come into contact with it also does not mean you have to endorse it or present them with it. It’s not a binary thing. Choose how you want to parent and observe the results of different approaches. YMMV.

golden_zealot ,
@golden_zealot@lemmy.ml avatar

It won’t work. Ever. VPN’s free and paid exist, File sharing exists, Torrents exist, AI pornography generators exist, freenet, tor, I2P all exist. There is no action a government could take that would have any true impact in this regard unless they made the use of the internet illegal, and even at that, it would create a black market in which such things could still be purchased as physical media.

All this does is allow government entities to infringe on privacy rights further by doing what they have always done - hiding behind children.

Anonymouse ,

Is it the responibility of any government to enforce a parental policy? What if I, as a parent, support my kid to view this stuff?

At home, I was allowed to have alcohol with supper at family meals from about 13.

I feel like the regulations should be to give parents control over their child’s activities if they so choose. While we’re at it, make it illegal to collect information about a person, parent or child, without their express concent. I don’t know how, but there are many smart people in the world that can probably figure it out.

Kir ,
@Kir@feddit.it avatar

I think we should stop, as a society, to try (and fail) to handle problems by imposing limits and obligation and start doing it with some fuckin large-scale massive education planning.

In this context: a smart boy/girl, with sexual/emotional education and good critical thinking can have access to all the porn in the world from teenage and be fine 99% of the time

Valmond ,

And if they aren’t smart enough, they’ll get a shit ton super sexualised stuff from the day they see a screen anyways.

It’s just a power game, or the old “vote for me, those things are evil”. I say that as no one seems to blend in sex ed. Like at all.

VolunTerry ,
@VolunTerry@monero.town avatar

Prohibition leads to black and grey markets, where what is produced and consumed is frequently even more corrupted and dangerous/risky in its acquisition and delivery than whatever you think of the corollaries in the lit markets. It may also drive more deviant and destructive behavior where they may hide their actions and produce more shame and be labeled criminals.

My only divergence would be that the education planning starts at each individual family level rather than large-scale massive education buracracy, which is what we have now and is failing badly to produce good results.

Maybe once that first order family circle is built strongly, you can begin to expand the circle of influence to extended family, neighbors, friends and community.

Kir ,
@Kir@feddit.it avatar

I disagree. Family education is very important, but it’s not something you can rely on. Just to point out some major problem:

  • you leave behind everyone that have a problematic family
  • even the most intelligent and benevolent parents will be just limited to their core value and experience, and education needs more
  • education is a very complex process that needs professionals, especially considering a rapidly evolving context like today. You can’t ask a parent to be ALSO a professional educator. You need skills, training, experience.
VolunTerry , (edited )
@VolunTerry@monero.town avatar

I am fine with you disagreeing and forging your own path. I mean that sincerely. I would like to follow mine. We can each see how it works out.

Just please don’t force me to support your approach, financially or otherwise, by using the state/gov or others as a proxy for your personal wishes, and I will agree to the same, as I already do.

Edit: Also, do not use those same levers of power to form a cartel that excludes my family, or those who choose to do it this way from participating in public life. We can all get along with tolerance and respect, despite our differences.

Upvote for the civil discourse and laying out your reasoning.

Kir ,
@Kir@feddit.it avatar

We are just discussing here. Why are you assuming I’m trying to force something into you or your family? How would I do it?

I’m sorry, I think I’m missing the point of your answer. It’s a social and we’re just discussing opinions, nobody can decide anything about anything.

VolunTerry ,
@VolunTerry@monero.town avatar

I know we are discussing it. I appreciate the discussion! You have been civil and a good conversationalist presenting your views with thoughtfulness so far. That’s rare on the socials sometimes.

I mean to drive at the manner of how you would accomplish your stated goals above. By voluntary enrollment of those interested who may agree with your approach? With the ability for those like myself who may live near you and who feel, think, believe and act differently to opt-out? Or by compulsory taxation, or other compulsory inclusion of my family in these services you pitch, with penalty of financial, legal, or violent force? For instance, no ability to peacefully remain in my location of birth and/or circumstance, but to opt out and to choose my own path AND choose not to pay for or participate in your scheme should I choose not to. Would that be acceptable?

I hope you can see the parallels I’m drawing to most regions in the world. I am compelled now to submit property tax and other tax for a similar model to what you describe above against my will, under threats, leading up to and including death, should I refuse to pay them, even if I choose not to participate in my neighbors preferred model. So thus under duress and extortion.

In this scenario, you (my neighbors) would not threaten me or use violence directly of course, but instead would use proxies with more manpower and weapons plus the false cloak of legitimacy or law to do it, which is cowardly and unjust. Beurocratic, legal and police action, again, up to and including violence, imprisonment and death force me to to comply to something I disagree with philosophically, morally, spiritually and logically. Today. Not hypothetically.

So what I’m saying is that I’m more than happy for you and yours to do things your way, even if I chose a different way. I wouldn’t compel you to fund or support my way. I would request you afford me the same courtesy and we could coexist in harmony, or at least not conflict, even if we disagree on approach.

This is not how the vast majority of modern society functions today. Which is why I’m curious about how you would approach your hypothetical model.

edit: spelling, clarity, fat fingers

turkalino ,
@turkalino@lemmy.yachts avatar

Might be a stupid question but is there any peer reviewed research that shows that porn is harmful to minors? Early humans didn’t have clothes so minors were seeing nudity for centuries. Of course, there’s the issue that porn gives men unrealistic expectations about women & sex, but that’s an issue regardless of age.

CaptainSpaceman ,

Probably not, its just religious pearl clutching for the most part that has been passed down unnecessarily

Free the bodies, let everyone be naked and we will all stop giving a shit

Kir ,
@Kir@feddit.it avatar

Your question is not stupid, but comparing porn to casual nudity is.

TheAnonymouseJoker Mod , (edited )
@TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml avatar

Early human minors (until a century or two ago) used to have sex, engage in hebephilia and pedophilia, and underage teenage girls used to be mothers. This is how we still have grandmothers today who married and had kids before the age of 18. So yes, your question is wild and scientifically ignorant. Porn has always been harmful to minors, and in fact, specifically more to minors or anyone under the age of ~25, because that is when neural connections stop forming and adjusting. The neural linking and development starts to slow down by the age of 15. That makes underage minors even more vulnerable, as they hit puberty, have raging hormones and are also at risk of sexual abuse.

turkalino ,
@turkalino@lemmy.yachts avatar

I don’t understand… your first couple sentences support my argument with evidence but then you say I’m wildly ignorant? Simply saying “their brains are still developing” and nothing else is a classic “protect the children” platitude

TheAnonymouseJoker Mod ,
@TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml avatar

I am not supporting your argument, but only provided a pretext to the reasoning. Biochemistry of humans being used as objective reason is not a “classic” whatever politics you choose to engage in. Privacy will always be secondary to protecting the future generations, and no kind of freedom is going to be tolerated by society for something as pathetic as pornographic pleasures. Privacy may fundamentally be important, but there are a lot of things higher on the priority list, like freedom, mental sanity, health, societal prosperity and other things.

kbal ,
@kbal@fedia.io avatar

Snake oil salesmen never had it so good. Without the layers of abstraction provided by computers, nobody would've believed their magic elixirs would protect children from getting interested in sex until their parents approved of it.

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